Glad the ceasefire is holding and the Israeli terrorists haven’t continued their genocide. Still so many babies left to murder— must be so hard for them to resist.

So, to summarize in the off-chance anyone pays attention to this idiot:

There is no EV mandate. There was no EV mandate. Effectively or otherwise. Take it no more seriously than “they’re taking away your hamburgers!” Or hysteria over induction stoves. To climate denying Trump cultists, who ignore all reality that doesn’t conform to what he or his media says, it’s all very real. That’s true. But it doesn’t exist. It’s just another small aspect of climate denial.

I don't know if Trump was lying or just honestly has his facts wrong, but either way, there is no EV mandate. The Biden administration DID tighten fuel-economy standards (though not as much as initially proposed) and the EPA did tighten tailpipe-emissions rules but there is no rule or law forcing automakers to build EVs or a certain percentage of EVs. Biden has set a goal of 50 percent EV sales by 2030, but that's a goal not a mandate.

Some might argue that the tighter rules will, in effect, force automakers to build more EVs in order to comply, but that would ignore that automakers can get there using other tech including hybrids. Automakers could also, if I understand the rules correctly, be in compliance simply by building more vehicles that have fuel-efficient internal-combustion powertrains -- you know, the kind of vehicles that have become scare as consumers flock to more-profitable crossovers and SUVs.

Even if the new rules do force automakers to alter their product mix and offerings to be in compliance, it is not a mandate that they build EVs.

I'd also add, taking off the fact-checker hat and putting on the analyst hat, that many American-built EVs are built in states that show heavy support for Donald Trump. Not only is Trump likely upsetting automakers, who need regulatory consistency since they plan models years in advance, but he could be upsetting his own constituents.

The Biden Administration dropped a new rule limiting tailpipe emissions from passenger vehicles yesterday, and you know what that means.

Yes, it's lying season!

I want to focus on one particular egregious lie. You will soon see arguments from certain anti-EV types that new rule is an EV mandate. It very much is not.

First, some background from the New York Times:
The rule increasingly limits the amount of pollution allowed from tailpipes over time so that, by 2032, more than half the new cars sold in the United States would most likely be zero-emissions vehicles in order for carmakers to meet the standards.

We can argue all day long about whether the rule is too stringent or not, or whether automakers will be able to achieve the administration's goals. But as the Times points out, the government is NOT forcing the fleet to become all electric:

The E.P.A. regulation is not a ban. It does not mandate the sales of electric vehicles, and gas-powered cars and trucks could still be sold. Rather, it requires carmakers to meet tough new average emissions limits across their entire product line. It’s up to the manufacturers to decide how to comply.

That hasn't stopped the American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers lobbying arm from calling the rule "Biden's EPA car ban." This is where I credit the oft-beleaguered Times, which I have hit at here and there, for not pulling punches and calling that assertion false.

It's not a ban on cars or internal-combustion engine cars. It's just not. And don't let those who have an anti-EV agenda lie to you.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cars/editorials/opinion-politicians-are-lying-about-biden-s-epa-rule-44505856

Exactly. Let’s all wait for those who have established themselves as authorities — and who definitely has not had their stupidity proven over and over again — to EXPLAIN to us children why these disasters are a good thing. Or just natural, etc.

Can’t wait.

The effective EV mandate — Agree-to-Disagree

It’s not a mandate, nor an effective mandate. Citing Trump makes you even more pathetic than you’ve established yourself to be.

Keep embarrassing yourself though. It’s cringey but kind of hilarious.

I will carefully explain it to you — Agree-to-Disagree

Love when idiots pretend to be the one’s “explaining” things— :rofl: Who exactly are you fooling, other than yourself?

Speaking of stupid myths like the non-existent EV “mandate,” what became of all that gas-stove hysteria?

Honestly, I wish there actually WERE mandates on this stuff. Public transportation, sustainable farming, etc. But all we get are emissions reduction targets years in the making, which are already way too long (50% by 2050!).

Meanwhile the world burns.

The Environmental Protection Agency rule that required auto manufacturers to cut greenhouse gas emissions by half in new light- and medium-duty vehicles beginning in 2027 IS THE MANDATE. — Agree-to-Disagree

No, it isn’t. And never was.

You can still buy combustion engine cars all you want. No one is forcing anyone to buy an EV. The entire “mandate” bullshit is and was a manufactured Fox News myth, on par with the hysteria around “taking away your hamburgers” and the “mandate” to buy induction stoves.

And the truly imbecilic fall for it. But Trump and his media said it repeatedly, so it must be true. If only there were a mandate against climate denying idiots…

The point of the original post is we can be 100% certain of the sensations we experience — Art48

What’s interesting about posts like these is the psychology that motivates it.

“Certainty” somehow is important, and saying this string of letters or this particular group of sounds we make — “sensations,” “consciousness,” “being,” “reality,” — is the one thing we can be sure of indicates that value.

Who cares about certainty in the first place? Or what’s true or real or fact? Maybe all of that is nonsense to begin with (which is what I think) and we’re just swimming aimlessly downstream from Descartes and Plato’s conceptions of the world.

Why did Descartes care about finding something “certain” in the first place? Why do you?

Sensations are no more certain than anything else. Sometimes just acknowledging that life is kind of groundless is good for you.

Wind turbines kill birds! Same logic.

Oh wait— cats kill 1000 times more birds. Hmm. It’s almost as if these criticisms of renewables are disingenuous.

Really hilarious to watch.

There has never been an EV mandate. True, that’s hard to believe for climate denying idiots who cite Donald Trump as a source.

The orders include eliminating the so-called "electric vehicle mandate," Trump's phrase for a Environmental Protection Agency rule that required auto manufacturers to cut greenhouse gas emissions by half — Agree-to-Disagree

Emphasis mine.

So yeah, the phrase “EV mandate” sure is used a lot, particularly in conservative media. Imagine thinking that this proves something…

The phrase “voter fraud” pops up a lot too. Must mean it’s true (it isn’t).

So both a climate denier and brainwashed by conservative media…but I repeat myself.

For anyone scrolling: don’t listen to the climate denying imbecile. He’s lying, or he’s watching too much Fox News: there has never been an EV “mandate” in the US. Never.

And the climate denying idiocy continues on…

EV “mandates.” Lol.

The climate denial idiocy continues on…

You shouldn't be pretending that there are no problems with our "solutions" to global warming. — Agree-to-Disagree

:rofl:

Are MGUY's videos "stupid bullshit" as Mikie is claiming? — Agree-to-Disagree

I’ve given your recommendation exactly the amount of attention it deserves: none. As with most climate deniers.

I get that you’re too stupid to understand why — but others do.

So the “windmills kill birds!” tactic of the stupidest of climate deniers. Let’s ignore the bigger “list” of problems with fossil fuels and focus solely on the problems of renewables. Never mind that fossil fuels are subsidized by governments and are far more costly, even when externalities aren’t added — like the fact that they create greenhouse emissions which is heating the world and are causing, and will continue to cause, worldwide devastation.

But some idiot on YouTube has something to say about it that we should all pay attention to — after all, he comes highly recommended by an Internet forum’s resident climate denier, and fellow intellectual fruit fly — who refuses to spend a second reading anything relevant on the topic, but would like you to spend the time watching his stupid bullshit.

Sounds great.

When in a hole, stop digging. Remember that everybody reading the thread can see how ridiculous you are. — Agree-to-Disagree

:rofl:

God you’re delusional.

MGUY is not talking about climate science. — Agree-to-Disagree

No kidding. Neither are you. Which is why it’s strange you’re in a climate change thread.

Why did you fail to mention that MGUY is also an engineer? — Agree-to-Disagree

An engineer is as much a climate scientist as a lawyer. But it’s hilarious you think it’s important I “left it out.”

We’re faced with a hard choice: listen to the thousands of climate scientists around the world — from NASA to the Royal Academy…and learn about the extensive, overwhelming evidence…

Or… do we ignore all that, select a YouTube lawyer (because what he says confirms what we want to believe), and then pretend that others are brainwashed because they dismiss us as idiots?

:chin:

The latter has the added benefit of pretending that we have special knowledge that everyone else has missed. Flat earthers and creationists talk exactly like climate deniers for a reason…

If Einstein had a YouTube channel would you refuse to accept his views? — Agree-to-Disagree

:rofl:

Are you really over the age of 11?

So he cites a YouTube guy.

Finally, “the truth” has been found.

Funny coming from the genocide apologist.

Do you consider Hamas a terrorist organization? — BitconnectCarlos

Do you consider Likud a terrorist organization?

Will the Israeli-terrorist genocide continue? That’s the only question. Already it looks like they want to continue freely killing babies and leveling the entire region (mostly rubble already) to the ground.

“Israel has accused Hamas of breaking the truce.” Right. We’ll figure out a story later.

Mikie, what have you been smoking? — Agree-to-Disagree

Ask a fruit fly to explain satire to you.

Big Geophysics, that’s a little fishy. The level of consensus that the earth is spherical is suspect. It’s about the funding. I look at the data myself, and make up my own mind. I’ve concluded that all the scientists are wrong: the earth is flat. But I’m not a flat earther.

Big Climate Change — Agree-to-Disagree

:rofl:

Trump Stocks E.P.A. With Oil, Gas and Chemical Lobbyists

Top appointees include David Fotouhi, Mr. Zeldin’s second-in-command, a lawyer who recently challenged a ban on asbestos; Alex Dominguez, a former oil lobbyist who will work on automobile emissions; and Aaron Szabo, a lobbyist for both the oil and chemical industries who is expected to be the top air pollution regulator.

Lol — it’s like bad satire.

Climate deniers back in charge. It’s basically too late anyway, at this point. We’re likely on the road to 2.4 or more. Which will be catastrophic. We’re at 1.1 now and already seeing hundreds of billions in damages and many lives lost thanks to the warming by greenhouse gases.

We deserve what we get. Here’s hoping the worst of it strikes those who voted in this idiot.

Big Climate Change, like there is Big Oil and Big Pharma — Agree-to-Disagree

:rofl:

I very much agree.

Didn’t think I’d be writing that in 2025.

Good post. A lot of good resources to ignore— in favor of the latest from Steve Koonin or the CATO Institute.

where is this so-called information coming from? — Outlander

Is this a joke?

You can Google it— the history of these companies isn’t obscure.

Elon Musk is a fraud. I’m not surprised by the dupes who buy that he’s a genius.

For the record: he did not found Paypal. He wasn’t even the CEO of the crappy company he, and several others, founded — “x.com” — at the time of the merger. Guess Peter Thiel is the real genius?

He did not found Tesla either— he was an early investor. It’s true he acquired Twitter and turned it into a bigger cesspool than it already was, worth less now than when he bought it — hardly something to put on a genius resume. And generally he’s a simpleton who’s proven himself too stupid to even notice he’s a social media addict.

Maybe once he was a coder or something. But otherwise a guy in the right spot at the right time. I give him credit for investing his money in Tesla — how brave and inspiring.

As LA continues to burn due to climate change, it’s worth remembering this is global, and just the beginning:

Using data from researchers at the University of Maryland, recently updated to cover the years 2001 to 2023, we calculated that the area burned by forest fires increased by about 5.4% per year over that time period. Forest fires now result in nearly 6 million more hectares of tree cover loss per year than they did in 2001 — an area roughly the size of Croatia.

https://www.wri.org/insights/global-trends-forest-fires

But have no fear — after 4 of the hottest years on record, remember what the Denier-in-Chief said, 4 years prior:



Still waiting. That’s so far turned out to be as accurate as “covid will be gone by easter [of 2020].”

because I am aware of his development regarding space and other engineering stuff — javi2541997

Like what? I’ve never been impressed by Elon. His engineers and developers are amazing people. The fact that he owns companies isn’t impressive.

Bring a billionaire doesn’t make you a genius.

Climate deniers have the intellect of a fruit fly, but consider that a compliment. :lol:

What I find hilarious is that it’s not just “alarmist,” which we’d all understand— he has to, each time, type out “climate change/global warming alarmist.” :lol:

When you have the intellect of a fruit fly…

Elon isn’t a Nazi and this whole thing is kind of silly, on the one hand. On the other hand, he’s got the intellectual capacity of a 10 year old, and has devolved into a Twitter addict — so who knows where it leads. I didn’t think Kanye “loved Hitler” years ago either.

These guys are so “open minded” that they can be convinced of anything. Maybe the earth is flat? Who knows. Look at how Rogan has become a Trumper and climate denier. A real 180 in just a few years. A lot of it is audience capture and opportunism, but still— anything is possible in social media land.

Let's say he ends the war in 100 days, as the Trump administration now says it intends, what then? — Tzeentch

Not going to happen, but if it did I’d praise the move.

I can’t see it happening because I don’t imagine Trump will agree to Russian terms regarding annexed territory, or NATO. Maybe there’s a 5% chance or so.

What if the person is a well-established idiot and the statement is tired, long-refuted, regurgitated denialist bullshit?

See above. We’re on (3)b.

So he cites the Cato Institute. :rofl:

Conversations with climate deniers:

(1) Stupid bullshit stated that you’ve heard a million times and that has been debunked a million times.

(2) You walk them through it.

(3) They move on to the next idiotic thing.

Or, after multiple times of going through this, (2) is skipped. Then: (3)b denier says “See! You can’t engage with the ‘argument’”. (The “argument” being searching the web for climate denial nonsense and AI summaries, copying them and pasting them.)

On we go. :yawn:



This was interesting, thanks.