• Are humans by nature evil
    C'mon, this same rhetorical question / rationalization has been invoked "In The Name Of God" by countless priests & princes at least since the Bronze Age (ergo theodicy, teleological suspension of the ethical, Deus Volt/Inshallah, ends justify means, just following orders, etc). :mask:180 Proof

    So what's your solution? People will follow anything. Someone or something attractive, larger than themself, popular, or of course, yes, religiously elevated. If it's not "religion" and "God" one is following it's "honor", if it's not that it's "scientific advancement", if it's not that it's "free will". We all follow something as if it were God (an ultimate truth or at least path to a better state of being). I don't see how changing the name of the phenomenon would ultimately prevent anything. Do you? :confused:
  • Are humans by nature evil
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."180 Proof

    All that means is laypersons need to be controlled by governing authorities and penalized when they act out. Which they are. Those who aren't sneaks, at least.

    What is your solution going forward? People want to believe in something greater than the cold, calculated, and ultimately empty mechanical workings of this world. That the warmth and resplendence we feel from a mother's embrace or a child's hand is more than just an illusion and nothing more than a series of neurons firing and responding to one another So they will. Bet.

    It's almost as if you're saying a person who is a genuine atheist can't ever get obsessed with eugenics and consider certain people "obsolete" or "defective" and attempt to remove them with a genuine sentiment of doing them and the world a favor. Ego or confidence and "self-assurance" is an ingrained biological mechanism for survival. It seems almost natural for someone in a position of power over others to end up with that line of thinking. If there's really nothing that matters, including one's own humanity, what harm is there to engage in genocide, enslavement, and anything else for that matter?
  • A new home for TPF
    But are you managing a limited liability company that affects other people's interests who entrust you with their philosophy-client needs?boethius

    Psst. It's been stated by the ultimate authority here that this particular line of topic needs to take a hard backseat, if you will. At least for some time. :smile:

    Perhaps discuss in the Shoutbox, featuring my glorious ready-made meal selection, or consider engaging in a private conversation via the in-forum utilities.

    faced with a decision affecting all members of our community (but at least with the support of most, so there's that), is basically of the attitude "Jeff Bazos is full of shit and anyone who proposes an irreversible decision, like the jurisdiction of incorporation and type of incorporation, 'must be made methodically, carefully, slowly, with great deliberation and consultation' is a business moron that we should all ignoreboethius

    The verdict seems to be, not that the good sir is unaware of possibility of risks, but that his "concern" for such vary significantly from your own. Whether this is due to ignorance or a simple differing view of what is important in life, respecting the will of the man in question, the legal aspect of this topic is no longer our concern. Nor is it desired to be spoken of furthermore. If you're a "I told you so" person, well, perhaps you'll get your moment of glory. Or, perhaps everything will be just fine. Either way, sounds like smooth sailing ahead. :cool:
  • A new home for TPF


    I checked on my phone. It has a nice, compact yet usable "floating" pagination feature on the bottom right of the screen. Some might even call that overkill as far as pagination design. :razz:
  • A new home for TPF
    But why don't you go and have a look?Jamal

    I will, thanks. I'll even update my browser for you.

    (Interesting because I do fairly often, it can't be more than a few months since I got the latest version, and yet, this is what I see: https://i.imgur.com/bvrNCnX.jpeg -- I am on Firefox 115.29, interesting this is the "extended support release" version since I am on Windows 7, which I just noticed Google Chrome literally refuses to offer any form of update for Windows 7, instead requiring a minimum of Windows 10 [I'd have to jump a full 3 numbers ahead] alas this is the view I am stuck with, and perhaps may be the same for others? Not sure)

    It's not a big deal at all. I don't need colors or images. Certainly not to dissuade your welcomed newfound enthusiasm for this forum by petty (albeit genuinely observed) observations that apply to very few, as you say, after all. :smile:
  • A new home for TPF
    A small minority of loudly opinionated frustrated people love to hate it but their reasoning rarely withstands scrutiny.Jamal

    All scientific innovation (read that again, EVERY single thing around you that isn't a rock attached to a stick) was created by a small minority. This in and of itself doesn't seem to be very useful in any intellectual or logical context of an opinion on the topic, particularly one about scientific or technological development and related feedback.

    People who become frustrated who don't express their frustrations are the leading cause of mental illness, violence, and more. This is scientific fact. They don't "love to hate" they simply have no choice but to express frustration (whether warranted or easily prevented or not) with something that happens to be, at the time, well, frustrating. I feel that is fairly self-evident. You never get angry? We all know you do. Speaking of which, that doorman (or lobby person) at your (possibly former) apartment better be alive. I recall a distinct level of frustration (loudly opinionated—albeit solicited—remarks) in regards to him. Besides. Frustration leads to reconsideration of choice and action, which in of itself (reconsideration of past habits) is the eventual driving factor responsible for every great invention or innovation not discovered haphazardly.

    Just as easily what is responsible for how the world is today: a combination of ingrained need to conform meets hedonic treadmill

    But all that aside. Do you have a link to a (popular/live/"actual") forum that uses Discourse? For some reason the meta links on the site itself seem to be "low-fi" or not the full featured version shown on the main site.

    Is there simply no pagination at all? I'm curious how that would work with a long discussion with say several hundred posts. Presumably you'd click a new topic and end up at the first post. There's surely some "jump to most recent post" or effective pagination link, yes?

    It just seems kind of nice for those with analytical minds who like to study certain posts from varying users the ability to control a certain "sphere" of 10-20 posts at a time (and then navigate to them after viewing the most recent post) and mentally recall "Ok, I was on page X" as opposed to "I last left off reading at 'that guy with the zombie baby as an avatar's post", for example.

    Not a big deal. All benefit comes at a cost. Naturally. I'm sure a few lone people might prefer traditional pagination is all. No fuss, just a view I'm sure others might hold. :smile:
  • A new home for TPF
    @boethius I love you. You're a rare breed. But the man has made his decision. Any benefit (or detriment and consequence) of his decision is now his and his alone to own. Your efforts are, as always, truly appreciated, if not only by myself. :100:

    Let us move onto greener pastures, shall we? :smile:
  • A new home for TPF
    infinite scrollunimportant

    Ooh, this. So much this. It's especially impactful if you browse on an Internet connection that is slow or throttled. As a web developer myself it's just so frustrating as to wonder what on Earth content is being transferred that would have just been easier to send straightforward to the browser.

    What about IE6 or people who disable Javascript for security reasons, for example? I'd almost think they're purposely making "progress" bad so people get sick of it and return to simpler times. Yes, that's a pleasing thought for anachronistic persons like us to hold, outnumbered and out-voiced as we are. We'll be proven right to the world someday. Someday... :starstruck:

    Edit: I think it has something to do with data archiving, to be honest. Or if you're a bit "creative-minded" some agenda in relation to such. Makes it harder to web scrape. You actually have to know what you're doing and simulate a JSON AJAX request, often using a token that is difficult to obtain by the most popular HTML scraping methods.
  • A new home for TPF
    People with too much time on their hands "looking out for the best interests of others" cause a great deal of problems in the world.Leontiskos

    Lots of people doing lots of things cause vast amounts of problems, equally. Do you really know for certain what is the cause of every great suffering? No, just what you're told (or the immediate observable factors that are usually but symptoms of true causes). I understand your sentiment those who proclaim to care about others enough to speak out about what's right or "best" are at the end of the day only human beings, and human beings are deceptive and generally predictable as far as being self-serving and generally untrustworthy. That doesn't mean those who keep to themselves and who don't actively try to offer suggestions to improve the world are somehow immune or the opposite. The statement quoted is just not very helpful. It doesn't forward any argument nor does it paint the person you're talking about in a non-favorable light. Some might call this... wait for it... "ill-informed!" :razz:

    Furthermore, what makes you think someone who has access to an Internet-connected device and can type out a reply in 20-30 seconds a few times in a row has "too much time on their hands?" Typing "long" posts is literally like breathing to some intelligent folk. Even if it may take you a while to read it (or like I suspect may be possible, having to re-read it only to get frustrated to no avail of understanding it). Perhaps they've earned their free time.

    Two pages of ill-informed posts on a tangential topic seems plenty sufficient here.Leontiskos

    There's lots of valuable and generally correct information as far legal philosophy he brought up, whether or not it applies to @Jamal's specific situation or not. This is considered noble effort. Relevant discussion. Do you think he's purposely giving bad information so as to sabotage TPF for some hidden or unknown agenda? If not, why concern yourself with a discussion between two people either one of the involved parties could have (and probably would have preferred) privately messaged?

    It just seems odd to me, as if you're trying to "shut down" a conversation after the two relevant parties basically agreed it to have already been over.

    And it would not be "authoritarian" to encourage people to think a bit before posting. Pointlessly and endlessly fatiguing moderators is not something that should be encouraged.Leontiskos

    With all due respect, the person you're criticizing seems to be on at least an equal level of communication and understanding of not only logic but real world knowledge as yourself. And that's being quite generous in your favor.

    Giving advice unasked is rude.Leontiskos

    It is not the lowest form of expression, opinion, or "advice", if the person sees a danger, whether real or not (and it many places, it is), and as an act of compassion and concern expresses why he thinks so to someone who he wishes to avoid said danger. This is basic human empathy. Literally the opposite of rudeness. Concern for fellow man is the cornerstone of all civilized society. Especially in a purposefully pinned thread that the site owner specifically made to "get feedback" from other posters from.

    What country are you from that makes all the above disappear in favor of blind following toward a total stranger who just so happens to be in charge? I seriously need to know.

    Doing it over and over for two pages is highly objectionable.Leontiskos

    Bruh. It's called a conversation. One makes a concern. The person responds to the concern. And the person responds in turn. It goes back and forth constituting a free exchange of ideas and opinion. If you were desired as a moderator, you'd have been asked already. End of watch bro. Time to live life as a normal civilian/poster. Come on, you can do it. :smile:
  • A new home for TPF


    @boethius is just trying to look out for the best interest of @Jamal, and as a result, all of us. Misguided or not. Why so authoritarian all of a sudden? Are you trying to emulate someone? :chin:

    I thought you were a free spirit. Making web extensions and CSS modifications and what not. This is highly uncharacteristic of you. I understand the stakes (and emotions in general) are high, but for goodness sake my friend, let us not forget who we are and what we stand for. :smile:
  • A new home for TPF
    I think to remedy some confusion here, it should be stated that since Jamal is a citizen of the UK, the Online Safety Act (rather it's potential legal penalties) in fact applies to him personally.

    If he were not a citizen of the UK, all the UK authorities could do is block his website from being visited (served ie. "made accessible") by any UK telecommunications provider. He both acknowledges as a UK citizen he could be liable and further acknowledges that regardless of the prior fact, this website is desired to be accessible for those in the UK, of which a substantial amount of posters hail from.

    Otherwise, it would be like if I was from Namibia, Africa and made a website in my country about African food. If some person from the UK who has African heritage wanted to visit my site but could not without requiring a citizen of another country to accept a different country's rules, laws, and systems to simply visit and learn about one's own heritage, that could be woven as a form of illegally depriving a citizen of widely-established rights of cultural heritage.
  • A new home for TPF
    Someone who is really a well resourced predator would have the sophistication and accomplices to carry out such a crime without creating any evidence that is what is happening. They will come to court as simply country folk with good cause and better reputations.

    Such an actor could make a company to make a company to make a company to, all in different countries, just to sue Jamal.
    boethius

    I mean, I'd probably consider agreeing with @Hanover at this point.

    The scenario you're describing is like something out of an international spy movie—almost. :smirk:

    No one person could ever really be as "invulnerable" to the level of hypothetical you describe, I'd wager. (A wealthy and well-oiled quasi-criminal organization, let alone an entire government who makes it their waking purpose to come after one man, it'd be much easier just to buy him out, I'd figure)

    The question I had initially the moment I first read the topic of a new forum was: "Why?" Naturally he answers "why" in the post, one of the primary reasons being legal safety/resilience followed by reliance on a larger, more successful forum software company (Plush doesn't update or really "do" anything these days and hasn't for quite some time). I don't know much about OSA compliance or UK data/Internet laws in general (other than they're pretty strict and to some people unfair/possibly Constitutionally unsound), but, do you think his main reasons in the first post of this thread are not as pertinent or vital to a continued and secure operation of TPF as he attributes them to be? :chin:
  • A new home for TPF
    3. Harassment by the government. Maybe someone posts on the forum something about some minister that minister finds out about (as they obsessively police their online mentions) and then uses their government power to go after your business and you yourself: audits, hate speech, money laundering, whatever.boethius

    Wouldn't that be like, a huge deal, turning @Jamal into a celebrity overnight and elevating this quiet little corner of the Internet into something anyone here wouldn't ever imagine in their wildest dreams? He would be the ultimate "every man" martyr everybody and their grandma would get behind—point being, it would make the elected official look bad which is not in any elected official's MO. No?

    However, if the plaintiff can force you to spend money then they can just keep doing that until you're broke.boethius

    Aren't there equal safeguards against this blatant and codified form of abuse of the legal system? Frivolous lawsuits, "lawfare", etc?
  • A new home for TPF
    As for liability, having limited liability is not written in stone.

    If you get sued for hundreds of thousands of pounds the winning party could then argue that it was not lawful to create that kind of liability as a small business to shield yourself from the legal consequences of your reckless speech actions and therefore you should be held personally liable.
    boethius

    I think his point was, based on his understanding, which I assume to be accurate, OSA compliance basically protects a person from all of that, assuming they abide by its guidelines, which require ability to moderate and delete offending content. It's not rational to attribute a site owner as somehow being able to know what unknown random persons they didn't raise who happened to sign up and begin using their publicly-available site say (freedom of religion is freedom of belief, which is tied to ability to speak such belief in the form of speech, otherwise that's a proxy violation of freedom of religion) before they say it, only that if it is deemed offensive or problematic that it may be removed in a timely and permanent manner.

    As it stands now, Jamal is a UK citizen open to anyone who is also a UK citizen to take him to court, if they have the wherewithal, of course. If I, as a nobody, notice offensive or extreme content, I would simply contact the hosting provider. And yes, it does vary on jurisdiction, precisely as you say. Though what is interesting is this is "hosted" software (as will the new forum be, presumably) meaning it depends on not only where those servers are located but how experienced (or inclined toward the particular site owner or free speech in general) the forum company that provides the software and hosting, which per basically all forum software licensing agreements it can terminate the forum "owner's" license or ability to use it at an any time for any reason, mind you. This is the key difference between the current and future dynamic versus if Jamal would have coded a forum software himself from the ground up

    As an aside: What would stop me from filing a request, right now as things are, to either the forum company or if this were actually privately-hosted, the hosting company and essentially accomplishing the same thing (getting the site shut down or forced to remove offending content or otherwise fundamentally changing how it operates?

    That said, you seem to know your stuff. Such wisdom is best heeded, perhaps? :smile:
  • A new home for TPF


    Interesting! I also feel it relevant to note TPF does, apparently, have its share of enemies. Not really "enemies" of the forum itself (that would be weird) but people who have axes to grind toward one or more high-ranking staff members and would consider as you say "blowing the whistle" for things that they likely could introduce themself or otherwise would reasonably show up organically either way.

    The staff generally seems left-leaning as it is, people who tend to post with assertions or implications that could be read as "offensive" are generally lopped in under "low quality posts" and don't tend to proliferate here for that reason alongside others. There are intelligent people who have a history of intelligent (acceptable) posts that do express beliefs that others may find not only disagreeable but perhaps offensive and inappropriate, but I can count them on a single hand. Point being, it seems the "UK authorities" and general TPF staff sentiment are more or less on the same page as far as what should be allowed and what shouldn't. But you never know. You never know. Good looking out! :smile:
  • A new home for TPF
    Are you asking about Marco?

    He's an annoying fucking twat, as elucidated with exceptional eloquence here.
    Michael

    So, he's just a guy, one out of 8 billion mind you, nothing special, save for the fact, he that did something some odd years ago nobody else seems to recall, that annoyed you and a few others.

    I wasn't there, I don't know, forgive me if that comes off as callous or discounting of your ability to perceive right and wrong or goodness and virtue in men, I just know nothing of the guy beyond the few sporadic mentions of his and a few other unspeakables here, and your comment, seeing as you're a moderator, piqued my interest, is all.

    I will read the topic you linked to now in full, every comment, specifically those who are staff or who otherwise seemed to have been here a while to see what type of "larger story" or "picture" one can reasonably ascertain.

    I thank you personally for your response and suggest perhaps, due to my nagging curiosity, might have been responsible in leading this topic slightly off topic. This was not intentional. I apologize, and honestly thank you for indulging in my juvenile curiosity, and will direct any other further comment or inquiry of the matter to you in a private message if I feel the need to. (Which I likely won't)

    While, as I'm sure you may be able to gather, your "Sleeping Beauty" thread may be above my current level of understanding (just a wee bit over my head), I look forward to engaging with you in it in the not too distant future. :smile:
  • A new home for TPF
    Some of us had concerns about him, and the future of the forum, so Jamal made this place and we moved over.Michael

    I recall hearing enough about "the old place" so as to form a relevant and accurate enough (albeit understandably underlying-ly ignorant) narrative, yes,

    So someone uninformed, and forgive my ignorance, a man made less than ideal decisions and temporary (albeit unnecessary) sufferings or hardships were placed on many folk at the time. Yet a new land was formed and thus all passed or alleged and perceived hardships should no longer hold any meaning.

    So, why don't we, that is to say all who were involved see this as a happy ending, per se?

    Forgiveness is not an acceptance of past wrongs but rather an acknowledgement that a better future not only can but has been obtained. There will always be people who gain power who use said temporary transient position unwisely. This is expected, nay, a requirement for the free and at times tumultuous world in which we live.

    I don't see how the memory of this man is not all but water under the proverbial bridge. What have you to fear in the present day and age as far as this person is concerned?
  • A new home for TPF
    If Marco comes back I may have to burn the place to the ground.Michael

    See this is why places like this, at least in the Lounge, should have a topic or something where past "legends" (or villains to some) can have their stories told unbiased from both sides of the proverbial fire.

    Don't you ever go to a new place and wonder what the stories, tales, and legends of the locals are? What the people who actually made a place what it is today have to say and what they feel and as a result what the true zeitgeist of a place is beyond friendly smiles and pleasantries? The blood, sweat, and tears behind the benches and walls we pass by every day without batting an eye or giving a second thought toward really are and what they represent to those who have seen and lived times we ourselves have not?

    I've been here for 5 years. I've seen the name "Porat" come up a few times, but with such intensity and quiet understanding between those who seem to know, it's... curious. Meanwhile, myself and new persons just view this as almost a mental tic or idiosyncrasy from otherwise respected posters because, it just doesn't make any sense where the rage or discontent comes from. It demands an explanation. And those who are free from fear due to being unbiased or otherwise not "in the wrong" have no reason for all darkness and secrets to become light and openly discussed.
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Calling someone naive is calling someone incorrect or ignorant of things you deem yourself as being correct or knowledgeable of or about. — Outlander


    No doubt, but then you added:

    You're calling them wrong, essentially, which is putting into question not just every single act or non-act they've ever engaged in or disengaged in in the entirety of their life, but their entire life worth altogether (ie. "the meaning of life" itself). — Outlander


    Which is completely nonsensical.
    Tzeentch

    Intelligent beings have a habit to be inclined to correct themself when given reason to. Social intelligent beings consider public opinion as a valid reason due to the fact group or family oriented societies are the only ones that have survived to this day and age. Sure, the average person shakes off the average passing comment, but that doesn't change the nature of the opinion the mind has a natural tendency to consider, at least for a moment and perhaps unconsciously, as a possible fact.

    At this point we're just calling science nonsense. Which I can respect, for those who provide sufficient reason, which you have yet to.

    Whether your beliefs and judgements proliferate themself in your mind due to resiliency, or perhaps ignorance, they nonetheless do independent of a larger fact or reason, not including cognitive bias, the brain likes to be right and will see things it enjoys (pattern recognition) to support this homeostasis. However, this is simply not relevant when it comes to actual analysis of the world outside our own head.

    This means you find the normal pattern of possible evidence introduced into a situation or dynamic followed by reasonable analysis and consideration of such as "completely nonsensical" . This is the thought process of dogmatist. Can you not step outside your personal sphere (no matter how many people echo or embrace it, or how valuable it seems, or possibly may actually be to, you) for a moment to see the larger picture that the majority of people hold and follow?
  • Are humans by nature evil
    "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." ~Steven Weinberg180 Proof

    Not quite. All it takes is making someone believe something—anything—that results in dehumanization (or dehumanization by proxy ie. elevation of one's self over others, which per human ego and evolutionary confidence is an easy, almost natural ingrained dynamic of the human experience to appeal to). Very easy. Natural, even, per our scientifically recognized "own race" bias. Sure, most beliefs that have profound effect incorporate some idea of a higher power, otherwise it's just one man's opinion in a sea of innumerable others. There are few people on Earth who at the end of the day aren't looking out for number one first and foremost. If it comes down to your kid or a stranger's kid getting fed, let's not kid ourselves as to who you're going to act toward getting fed, irrespective of gods, religion, and who's food it "rightfully" is or should be.
  • A new home for TPF
    The one big improvement I could make to the archive is to include the categories.Jamal

    I'll give you one hint.

    To retrieve the category automatically from the HTML content of the topic URL, use this Regular Expression (which I'm sure Perl supports):

    Reveal
    <li class="(?:.+?) Active"><strong><a href="(.+?)">(.+?)</a></strong></li>
    


    Item #1 will of course contain the fully matched string, Item #2 will contain the URL structure (ie. "/categories/1/general-philosophy") and, the magic Item #3 will contain the Category Name (ie. "General Philosophy").

    Now all you have to do is fetch and retrieve 13,000 webpages and sort through them. Not as daunting as it might sound, but you should know that. :smile:

    (Unless of course the "dump" or rawest form of database storage you can access has some field or notation for category, in which case it'd be even easier!)
  • A new home for TPF
    OK, I'll leave them. I've found a decent compromise, which is that they won't be indexed by search engines but anyone can visit those pages, given the URLs (or find them from the archive's search page or whatever).Jamal

    Or, you can just copy and paste them (along with relevant information such as the particular contest name and type, date of publication, user vote data, and author, if available) to a new, locked read-only sub forum on the upcoming new site? Unless the comments or reviews are of such dire importance. :snicker:

    Or would that result in some sort of unfortunate gray area as far as the legal standards and obligations you're seeking to meet and fulfill are concerned? :chin:

    If so, perhaps there can be a further compromise such as a single pinned thread in some sub forum that links every single short story/poem/literature from every competition that links to its respective content on the archive site? Or would even that be disallowed?
  • A new home for TPF
    Using ChatGPT to do in an hour more than I could have done in a week, I managed to turn a dump of my posts from Jamal's archive into a useable database then a searchable local web page. Still pretty basic but at least I will have access to this stuff locally. Somewhat satisfying.Banno

    Yeah. Most people can do that too. I have a "dump" of everything I've ever said, thought, or experienced in a usable database I can search and access as well. It's called my brain. :lol:

    I kid, of course. Always happy to see a rare casual "personal" post from one of TPF's hardest hitters who makes this site what it is. Always mystifying and enlightening, yet never concealing or pompous. Well, not terribly often, at least. :razz: Post onward, as if the fate of humanity depends on it. It just very well may. :gasp:
  • A new home for TPF
    As I recall, PF was bought by somebody for more than it was worth, but then almost immediately abandoned by its new ownernoAxioms

    That's... one way to look at events. For those who see beyond the mortal eye, who become aware to what the real battles are, it's clear. Free thinkers tend to be.. problematic, shall we say.
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Complete nonsense. I'm doing nothing of the sort.Tzeentch

    But it was you yourself who already established these people who disagree or otherwise think differently than you are "ignorant" or "inexperienced" AKA "naive". You can't backtrack or pivot in a way that undoes your main argument. Painting one's self into a corner is part of life, we all do at one point or another. But stepping onto said paint (your argument), then walking into clear hallways (my argument), then acting like your tracks aren't clear as day (the inconsistencies of your argument) is a whole different animal one doesn't need to invoke upon one's self. Introspection, self-reflection is what normal people do, not only when proven (or otherwise told they might be) wrong. Is this natural part of the human experience really so unknown or unfathomable to you?

    Calling someone naive is calling someone incorrect or ignorant of things you deem yourself as being correct or knowledgeable of or about. This is but the simple definition of the term.
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Calling people naive isn't demonizing them.Tzeentch

    Is that not the same thing to naive people? If they were perfectly in line with (perhaps what is but your view of) rationality there would be no disagreement or issue on your end now would there?

    You're calling them wrong, essentially, which is putting into question not just every single act or non-act they've ever engaged in or disengaged in in the entirety of their life, but their entire life worth altogether (ie. "the meaning of life" itself). That's going to result in an equal if not greater reaction or response than if you intentionally set out to do so as your only prerogative.

    It's a profound thing to force someone to question. One's results may vary. Particularly if one is outnumbered by a naive populous. Surely you've processed such base and highly likely future outcomes yourself, yes?
  • A new home for TPF
    Yeah, I was just thinking about that. The comment URLs on this site don't contain the dicussion IDs, so I can't just use a basic mapping. But I don't want to include an explicit individual redirect for every one of the million or whatever comments.Jamal

    You may be able to use something like this:

    An .htaccess file redirecting comment link sytnax to a web script:
    Reveal
    RewriteEngine on
    RewriteRule ^discussion/comment/([0-9]{7})/?$ jamals-script.php?commentID=$1
    


    A web script (of any language) that attempts to locate a corresponding discussion based on a given comment ID:
    Reveal
    $commentID = $_GET['commentID'];
    
    if ( preg_match( '{^([0-9]{7})$}', $commentID, $matches ) )
    {
        // comment ID is a 7-digit numeric string
        if ( $friendlyURL = searchDatabaseForPostID( $commentID ) )
        {
            // assuming the above function returns the relevant friendly URL segment or FALSE if not found (ie. "1234567-friendly-title-here")
            header( 'https://tpfarchive.com/discussions/' . $friendlyURL . '.html#comment-' . $commentID;
            die;
    
            // or, simply read and print out the intended target (perhaps add a javascript function to let the page "jump" to the given comment, similar to how Plush operates currently) up to you!
            // $page = file_get_contents( 'https://tpfarchive.com/discussions/' . $friendlyURL . '.html?jumpToComment=' . $commentID );
            // echo $page; // presuming you add a special JS bit when "jumpToComment" URL var is detected, if a user has javascript enabled, the end page shows to the browser as the original comment URL but is actually the contents of the above "file_get_contents" request. this may be desired or to be avoided based on user preference. you can even edit the html post-retrieval and throw in a one line javascript bit in the <header> tag yourself before displaying to the user
            // die;
        }
    }
    
    // if we are here either the comment ID was not valid (7 digits) or the comment ID was not found
    header( $_SERVER['SERVER_PROTOCOL'] . ' 404 Not Found', true, 404);
    include( '404.php' ); // or simple print a 5 line 404 html page
    die;
    
    // or, simply redirect to default 404 page
    // header( 'https://tpfarchive.com/notfound' );
    


    (untested psuedo-code.. but I am involved in this line of work presently, so I'd be hard pressed to find out it's non-functional..)
  • A new home for TPF
    All discussion URLs, i.e., all links to specific discussions/threads/OPs from the old site (this one), will be redirected to the relevant pages of the archive. This means threads which are indexed on Google and linked to from other sites will not leave a trail of broken links behind them. I'm not sure if it's worth doing this for individual comments too.Jamal

    Ah, beautiful. Yes I figured the discussion syntax is quite easy to create a redirect for. Looks like a basic static 301.

    The comments would be interesting since they do not contain any part of the discussion URL. This would mean having the comment ID fed to a script that pulls up the discussion ID and then redirects the user to the relevant discussion URL prefixed with a hash anchor containing the comment ID. Preferably also sending a 301 Moved Permanently header. Provided you or another staff member created the archive site from scratch (not using a pre-boxed framework or library) your knowledge in such fields seems sufficient enough to do so easily (and most importantly: properly or safely). :smile:

    Edit: I notice Plush forum discussion links seem to make use of "friendly URLs" containing the title or a signifcant part of the title in the URL link. Is this done dynamically or is there a data entry alongside the discussion ID containing the final URL fragment (ie. "16281-a-new-home-for-tpf.html")? I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you have all 13,000 final URLs in a list that can be easily indexed and retrieved.
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Your naive empathy is not a virtue.Tzeentch

    And naivety is no intentional offense. Which means it is not an unreasonable position to hold. So, how will you reach those who are naturally compassionate without ostracizing yourself by attempting to demonize people who only want what's best for those around them and of course the world?
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Again, I'm not interested in sob stories.Tzeentch

    That said there's 8 billion people with 8 billion interests who you have no say over whatsoever, so. Not seeing the relevance of your lone opinion as far as anything relevant to the real world and actions in it going forward. But yeah, thanks for sharing. Makes the community even more tight-knit to know our personal preferences such as favorite recipes, colors, and other little personal interests (or non-interests).

    I'm not sure if one giving a factual account of dire, human circumstances the majority of people can relate to and sympathize with a title of "sob story" is supposed to remove or lessen the legitimacy or relevance of the underlying facts that constitute a given situation—or convince rational people (who don't have an unmistakably medically-deficient and reduced capability to understand empathy or human emotion)—of anything. It doesn't, by the way. :smile:
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    It has not. The main character of Breaking Bad is obviously a "hardcore criminal", and this was the subject from the very beginning.Tzeentch

    Ah, there we are. I had only joined in after the following page where I responded to your sentiment that in fact had no such mention of any "character" or TV series but only the general concept of drug dealers.

    Jolly good to have cleared this up. Funny how these little misunderstandings come about organically and on their own. Another victory for intelligent discourse and rationale. Cheers. :party:
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Showing understanding and leniency towards hardcore criminals on account of them being "large, violent, dangerous children" is the sympathy route.

    Why choose sympathy for them over sympathy for their many victims?
    Tzeentch

    Perhaps one shouldn't. But now the subject matter has shifted. We are now talking about hardcore criminals whereas before one might consider just another dumb kid who's never even been in a fight who got caught up with the wrong crowd—or perhaps racked up too much of a debt with people you don't want to owe money to or otherwise "has to" lest something very bad happen—as one of these "hardcore criminal" drug dealers you profess to know all there is to know about. This is the disconnect between your apparent sentiment and that of an average person. You presume to know things which you have no way of knowing. Why?
  • The Aestheticization of Evil
    Are you saying that criminals are essentially subhumans I ought not judge on the same basis as I would ordinary people?Tzeentch

    There are few people selling drugs who—if they would make as much money selling drugs doing something legal with around the same level of time and energy spent—would still be selling drugs.

    This is not to suggest that these are all moral people who toss and turn at night struggling to come to terms with a life they despise yet are forced to live in order to survive, of course not. They like the easy money and likely view the world as a dog-eat-dog place. They don't want their clients to die, but they certainly want their money, and if a man can't go through life and conduct himself like an adult with willpower, that's nobody's fault but his own. The world is a tough place and nobody is going to hold your hand through life. This is the extent to which the average person (criminal or not) tends to "think" about "the world" and anything beyond nominal, trivial, personally-relevant everyday topics.

    There's a kind of philosophical paradigm I can't recall right now. Judging by the intent of an action versus judging by the outcome (end result) of an action. If I give a homeless guy $500 and a place to stay so he can turn his life around, and he instead buys a gun with it and goes on a shooting spree, am I just as guilty as If I had literally handed him a gun and drove him to a place he asked to be driven to after telling me he "wants to shoot some people"? According to some people, yes, yes I am.

    Bad example. A better example (or at least comparative scenario) would be if I was the person responsible for introducing this woman to the fish she consumed, that she never would have consumed otherwise, that resulted in the amputation of all four of her limbs. Any reasonable person would consider the chain of effects a horrible, one-in-several-million freak accident and perhaps spend as much time consoling me as they would the victim! Again, to some people—and they point to a valid reality and chain of events—if I would have just minded my business, perhaps by being stingy and not giving anyone any gifts, the woman would be fully mobile today. It's true, after all. But is that really fair? Most people would think not.

    To answer your question: In my view, most young adults are like children. Large, violent, dangerous children. They don't really know what it is they're doing, at least, the things they do and the resulting consequences of such doesn't mean to them what it means to someone more intellectually-inclined. They know right from wrong, but in an unrefined, rudimentary sort of way. They have a grasp of it, an idea of an idea, per se, not unlike a young child in grade school when it comes to algebra. What's not important is whether the person is smart, dull, a literal child, or a fully grown adult. What's important is bad actions are stopped, equally, and that the punishment (if any) is proportional to the capacity of the individual to understand why what they did was wrong. We don't execute dangerous mentally ill people even if they have killed before. But that doesn't mean we do nothing and let them roam about unimpeded.

    Remember, alcohol is just as dangerous as many drugs. It can be addictive, it can be harmful, it can turn a person into a raging out of control danger to themself and others, it can kill a person and even result in the deaths of many persons, directly or indirectly. Should we go around yanking young supermarket clerks, bartenders, and liquor store staff off the streets and placing them all in some deep dark hole somewhere? I don't think so. And neither do you. :up:
  • Disproving solipsism
    Anglo-American philosophy has been stranded for some time in an attempted pivot away from Cartesian dualism. The OP is pestering the issue anew.

    You could probably find a forum focused on welding if the OP question seems like a waste of your time. :grin:
    frank

    I find most people who become entrapped in the belief that "nothing is real" that is to say "other people aren't real" do not appreciate the philosophical depths of true solipsism and are simply struggling with something quite non-philosophical and dangerous to themselves and those around them, is all.

    It's a fine topic. For the few whom it actually applies to.

    There is a huge and mighty choice between solipsism and idealism and choosing to dip your feet into the real world.Colo Millz

    This seems to disregard the main tenets of solipsism. It's not a "choice." It's literally the real world. That is to say, what you, or to your credit, any normal person would consider "dipping [their] feet into the real world" is doing the exact opposite. It's derived from a tale in Greek mythology (or perhaps the mythology was derived from an actual worldview) where a mortal is damned to live an eternity alone, all while thinking he's in a world full of innumerable other persons, thus making it an ever more vindictive punishment than if he was perceptively alone and sure of his or her fate. Again, it's a line of thought best avoided altogether. Particularly for those susceptible to the wills and minds of others.

    Also, @frank this is what I'm talking about. Most people who believe "other people aren't real" (or sure, the deeper tenet that is, nothing except myself and my thoughts can be "proven" as real) really don't understand anything about the deeper philosophy, only the immediate descriptor (or in my view, symptom).
  • Disproving solipsism
    Isn't this one of those things that—while seemingly deep—actually has no effect at all? Like, what if there really is a Firmament above Earth? Are you reasonably, in your lifetime, ever going to be rich enough or permitted by a government to leave the atmosphere and colonize another planet? No? Then why worry about it? What does any of it matter? "Oh it's just such a profound difference between what I thought was reality versus what it actually is!" Oh please. Don't give me that. No it's not. This is basically the same thing as the "monster under the bed that disappears every time you check but only for as long as you're checking" argument. What if your actually the legitimate heir to the throne of England? No one will believe you. And thus, nothing will come of it. So, a non-issue remains exactly that. A non-issue. Save for those who have an abundance of such, I'd wager. :smirk:
  • A new home for TPF
    It's helpful for identifying trolls.frank

    Which isn't relevant in enlightened communities such as TPF. They don't exist here. It's either too "boring", niche, and "slow", among other things, the main thing being the "customer base" (ie. intelligent people don't contribute to the feedback loop that people looking to provoke negative reactions online look for. There's nothing for people like that here. This would be akin to setting up a bear trap in the suburbs. There's just no legitimate use or reason to.)

    This is where your "normal operating standards" (that are very useful in, again, normal places) don't have a place in intellectual spaces that explore free thought. All it would do is determine unpopular viewpoints, and give false credence that something unpopular is inherently bad. Judging a book by it's cover. I doubt anybody here who's a significant contributor would choose to read or ignore a post based on "likes" or "dislikes". And I would hope the vain pettiness that many people feel in "disliking" a view instead of logically refuting it (often due to lack of ability to) is non-existent for the majority of posters here.

    Though I'm disinclined to (biased against) "likes" and dislikes" (it just seems like it's everywhere and taking over everything online), I can understand upvotes. Some people like to reply to a post they agree with with things like " :up: " or " :fire: ", which doesn't bother me. It's a message board at the end of the day, after all. But if staff wanted to cut down on simple posts that work out to "I agree" or "I disagree (but can't or won't explain why)" and view likes/dislikes as a better option than that's all there is to it I guess.
  • Ideological Evil
    No. I am not arguing that delusion is an issue. I said reason and destiny. Not madness and destiny.Tom Storm

    You also said "those who think" they have reason and destiny on their side. Which is precisely who I was referring to when I referenced "self-confidence" (or possibly self-delusion). Essentially, we all think we're unique, in some ways. That we have purpose and our actions are justified by our beliefs. No? Is this not the breeding grounds for the inevitable state of mind you describe?

    It's best not to presume what others here know or don't know about themselves on a forum.Tom Storm

    That's correct. However I give people the respect and benefit of the doubt to assume they post honestly and are describing their worldview and sentiments to the best of their ability. Analyses in line with generally-accepted psychology and proven patterns of human behavior is just one step above mere presumption. Meaning, if someone expresses a sentiment of how "all roads are two lanes", this would lead an observer to conclude said individual is ignorant of the existence of freeways. Maybe they're not. But if one is expressing their view of the world and how they see it honestly and to the best of their ability, it's a fair presumption analysis.

    That said, I'm not sure what your point is.Tom Storm

    Just that it takes two to tango. People, especially desperate people, can be led to believe anything. If people were more educated, or yes, perhaps just intrinsically better than how they are, those leaders who ended up committing crimes against humanity and other human rights abuses (who were not born into cemented power and so had to become such from the ground up, of course) never would have been anything more but unknown figures. The average person likes things that are not conducive to enlightened societies (primal pleasures, violence, and conflict) more than things that are (highly cultured entertainment, operas, plays, higher learning, and such). It's not that these preferences are the mark of an evil majority, it's just that the former is "easier to understand" and therefore one who peddles the former is more likely to be taken seriously and elevated to power or social worth than one who truly believes in the latter.

    In a sentence: it's not that a person who "thinks they have (whatever it may be) on their side" that's dangerous, it's the fact that the majority is easily convinced of anything so long as you push the right buttons. As far as believing in one's self (having "reason" or "destiny" on "one's side"), sure, hard work tends to pay off. Dedication tends to result in, well, results. "Confidence is key", I suppose? Is this some sort of revelation? Come to think of it, I'm not sure what your point is, really. :razz:

    And that's quite alright. :grin: We both, in our own complementing ways, made this discussion just a bit more broad and insightful than it was previously, just a bit more "worth one's perusal" to those who will read and participate in it after us, I'd say. Bravo, to the both of us.
  • A new home for TPF
    It works. I have a couple of subreddits which I've never had to moderate. Downvotes do all the work.frank

    And this is a further point! Perception bias toward popularity. "If it's popular, it's right and should be paid attention to, if not, it's a waste of time." Also known as "judging a book by its cover"-ism. The greatest crime against human thought. I'm not immune. If I see a post from a staff member (at first I thought I was just a victim to authority bias, until I thought about it and realized, no, I genuinely recognize the elevated intellect of those who just so happen to be authority figures here, and that's perfectly okay) I pay it extra attention, and I've noticed generally tend to agree with it, or at least consider what specific viewpoints I hold that would differ as perhaps less refined than I would have otherwise. This is only natural for social beings. Yet it can be dangerous if it leads to a feedback loop of confirmation bias (ie. this is a forum of smart people, therefore, what is disliked is stupid, and what is liked is smart). That's fine for Reddit, for the majority, but with all due respect, this is not now nor hopefully will ever be anything like Reddit. Simply put, if the "norm" and "what's popular" in life and society was sufficient for those here, they wouldn't be here. They wouldn't seek greater. But we do. That's why we're here. We're not satisfied with the cookie-cutter norms and standards of everyday life that the layperson eats up as if it were ambrosia. Am I wrong?
  • Ideological Evil
    Which reminds me that the most dangerous people in the world are probably those who think they have reason and destiny on their side.Tom Storm

    Is it really that simple, though? The partially-disrobed homeless dude on the corner believes he has reason and destiny on his side. So, respectfully, it's far more complex and substantial than that one requirement of self-confidence or self-delusion.

    It takes two to tango. Human nature resulted in every crime against humanity. The front men or perpetrators, merely pawns of fate and catalysts of the darkness that churns within every man.

    Why are libraries full of lifetimes of wisdom and virtue empty yet arenas of combat and near-death cheap entertainment full at any given moment? Ask yourself that. And you'll find out something about yourself you did not wish to know.
  • A new home for TPF
    Maybe we could trial downvotes? They have a harsh side where immature people downvote to signal disagreement, but they can also be an effective means of community self moderation.frank

    Seems rather needless, perhaps even detrimental to exploration of free thought and differing view points. If you have a valid and logical disagreement, you simply make it known like an adult instead of attempting to obscure one's—essentially baseless—personal sentiments as if they were anything but exactly that.

    I wouldn't mind. So long as they don't actually do or mean anything. Otherwise all this will result in is not community self moderation but censorship against views that are perfectly valid yet not aligned to one's own—not even views—but ingrained dogma masquerading as views.

    Provided someone isn't literally just making things up that cannot be substantiated, one should have the respect to give any posit or position one doesn't either agree with or understand a proper response to reveal one's own understanding (or as it is many a time, misunderstanding) of the author's sentiment so that their own sentiment can be revealed and scrutinized in return. We wouldn't allow a perfectly valid albeit controversial claim to be replied to with "Yeah, well, I don't like that idea", as if it contributes anything to logic or reason and human understanding—which it doesn't. So why allow it in the form of trivial, faceless "down votes" devoid of any reason or explanation? :chin: