Is hiring security for your house a threat to criminals who want to break in and therefore you are also guilty if they actually attack? — Christoffer

:clap:

Were any of us absolutely honest, realistic, and totally non-delusional, we'd have to consider blowing our brains out forthwith. — Bitter Crank

Why? I trust we can be non-delusional about history without committing suicide. We can live without all these lies. We don't really need them. They are made up to make us feel good about our tribe, that's all.

Well, I think a certain degree of national pride or, at least, appreciation for one’s cultural heritage, isn’t a bad thing. — Apollodorus

As long as you can appreciate your neighbours' cultural heritage as commensurate to yours, I see no problem with that. And as long as you don't turn a blind eye to less glorious role your nation may have played.

It's the xenophobia involved in nationalism that I object to, as well as the many fake nationalistic histories in currency right now. The many lies underlying the nation state, everywhere.

But even if the paper mentions all the actors we've all mentioned, it's very clear, if the paper is a truly leaked paper, that all of this is Putin's delusional dreams of a new Russian empire.

I really would like to know if that paper is real. Hard to verify things during propaganda machines on both sides during a conflict. — Christoffer

The paper is signed by a certain Petr Akopov, in both the Web Archive version provided by Tim and in your version, relayed by the Frontier Post. The text is the same as well in both links when you do an automatic (google) translation of the Russian into English.

In other words, the Frontier Post posted on 27 Feb a Google Translate version of the original Russian article, published on RIA Novosti the day before.

According to Wikipedia, RIA Novosti is a Russian state-owned domestic news agency, founded in June 1941 (as Sovinformburo).

The Frontier Post is a newspaper from Peshawar, Pakistan. It started to republish Petr Akopov's articles two months ago, as can be seen here:

Search Results For - Petr Akopov
https://thefrontierpost.com/?s=Petr+Akopov

As of date, the Frontier Post hasn't put down the "brave new world" article.

These articles are not written by Putin. They are not leaked either. However, they are coming from an official source and describe a non-too-atypical world view from that source.

Which is not surprising given that India and Russia are neighbors. — Apollodorus

Yes. Yes. Yes. Their eyes were open alright, because they cared, and they were markedly more humble than the westerners I met. The mood among the latter was nervous, bossy, angry, naïve, and condescending to the highest degree, even when they didn't know they were.

This US election expert had been posted in Kabul for 3 years. A true veteran! At some point, hearing me speak Farsi to an Afghan colleague, she asked, appreciative: "Oh, you can speak Arabic?"

This is just an example. I regret to say, the Americans were not the worse. The UK diplomats, oh they were in another league.

Now they are laughing at Putin's problems in Ukraine. IMO they should look at their own disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not to mention Vietnam ... :smile:

Why, there's no nation made of angels. The French bombed indiscriminately entire villages off the map in Syria, Algeria, Vietnam etc. The Germans, well... Need I go on? The important thing is to learn from such things, internalize the guilt, accept one's national destiny as, well, not so manifest or exceptional after all... Digest history. That's a big part of the European project in my view.

You seem stuck on this point due to a lack of imagination, Olivier, — 180 Proof

I don't need much imagination to picture what you have in mind, Proof, as I too saw Jupiter Ascending.

MOSCOW (The Borowitz Report)—Vladimir Putin has become “deeply worried” about his strategy after learning that Donald J. Trump called him smart, Kremlin sources have revealed.

After Trump praised Putin Saturday night at the Conservative Political Action Conference, in Orlando, the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, reluctantly shared a video of the disturbing moment with the Russian President.

“As Putin watched Trump call him smart, all the blood drained from his face,” a source said. “He was clearly shaken.”

After watching the video of Trump, Putin spent a sleepless night in consultation with Russian military and intelligence officials to determine where and how he had gone wrong.

"He’s rethinking everything now, and he’s in a very fragile state of mind,” the source said. “If it comes out that Don, Jr., or Eric thinks he’s smart, that could break him.”

Meanwhile, Donald J. Trump doubled down on his support for the Russian President, offering Putin advice on declaring Russia bankrupt.

According to some analysts this has been a contributing factor to the failure of US-UK adventures in places like Iraq and Afghanistan — Apollodorus

Why yes. I know something about that, re. Afghanistan.

At some point, circa 2013 on a flight to Kabul, i got seated next to some UK general who introduced himself as the UK top commander in Afghanistan. Forgot his name. We started a discussion about how it was all going. I remember he said Afghanistan was a lost cause since the US moved their attention to Iraq, and he was right about that. What stroke me though, was how little he knew about Afghans and their motivations. And the same applied in all the Western embassies I went through during that trip: nobody gave much of a shit for afghan culture. The only ones I left with an impression of having met a true professional and not an inexperienced joker, were the Indian and the Russian embassies.

It certainly occurs in England where there is prejudice not only toward "darkies" but also toward the Irish, the Russians, and above all, the Germans. — Apollodorus

And certainly against the French as well, and the Italians, the Belgium, etc. The Brits and Americans tend to think highly of themselves, they treat everybody else with contempt, not just the Slavs.

I have an Italian friend here (Rome, Italy) who keeps ranting on and on about how Italians are treated with contempt, and how American tourists ask her questions in English, in a soddin' Roman street. Try and ask a question in Italian in any US city, and watch the face people make (except in Rhode Island where it'd be fine).

There is even a song in French about the contempt displayed by anglo types...

Western contempt and bad faith toward the Slavic people — baker

The French have always idealized the 'Slavic soul'. The Greeks tend to be pro-slav, the Italians too. Don't confuse the West with America and the UK.

Well, I thought that comment of Isaac's was fair, and not unprovoked — jamalrob

Interesting opinion of yours. Mine is that the real tragedy is in bombing people, and that western media are not doing that -- they just talk. That some people talk is not a tragedy in my book. But what do I know?

"Thanks Obama!"

This is what I hear. The same old same old anthem from the US right.

It's either that or the US left equivalent: "It's all on Reagan".

Either way, it is a form of hubris.

Sure, if one looks for causes, they are dozens of them. In my mind, the single most impactful error made by the US that capacitated Putin to do this, was to illegally invade Iraq in 2003. If the US can invade Iraq without a UN blessing, Russia can invade Ukraine. Or try to...

But the fucking clowns above me would rather just talk about how Putin Bad herp drep, more war pls. — StreetlightX

Axiom number 1: It's ALWAYS Obama's fault.

Axiom number 2: When it's not Obama's fault, refer to axiom number 1.

Axiom number 3: No matter what happens, it is NEVER the fault of someone located east of the Don.

Axiom number 4: It's not even worth discussing because those disagreeing are FUCKING CLOWNS.

Thank Obama for COVID, too! ;-)

Someone said that if you read comments from the Chinese Pinks you'd think the US just invaded Ukraine. — frank

And you can thank Obama for that! ;-)

So you guys have sorted it out yet? Can we say at long last that all this blood is on Obama's and Clinton's head? Because you see, that thought helps me sleep at night, while Ukrainians get bombed...

The fantasy that the US is responsible for everything on earth stems from overestimating US power. It's a form of fetish, an illusion of omnipotence that anglo-saxons are often subject to these days; well, those who still live in the fifties.

Not so long ago Putin managed to install his own extreme-right nationalist puppet not in Kiev but in Washington, DC... It lasted for four long years, and the puppet may come back. That is the extent of US power today: they don't even get to chose their president, sometimes; some Russian autocrat will chose for them.

Keep flogging your backs. It's entertaining.

This is a stupid thing to say, said only by stupid people. — StreetlightX

You are stupid alright. The truth is just stubborn. There's a difference.

What is the advantage in exculpating the US and Europe? — Isaac

I don't know, but I know that the only advantage of blaming the West for this war, is to exculpate Putin.

each immortal (whether mortal-born or a clone) would have to be made sterile — 180 Proof

And thus they won't be able to have children... You see? So your assumptions aren't that different from mine.

What I mean is:

EITHER your immortals are allowed to have children, in which case overpopulation ensues after a few eons, OR they are not allowed to have children, in which case their world is not worth living in. It's a dead world anyway, where a child is never born.

I just loved Mishima in my late teens. He must have known something about death. I can't imagine what it takes to kill oneself the way he did.

First you asked: "Why no more children?", and now you ask: "Why have children?"

If immortals are having children, where do you put the excess population?

nostalgia is one of the most beautiful feelings of humans ever. — javi2541997

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
Peter de Vries

I'm not a romantic or nearly as nostalgic as you seem to be, Olivier. — 180 Proof

Guilty as charged.

to live indefinitely within an ever-progressing "hundred year present" – that would be my preference. — 180 Proof

That would not be mine, as it would imply a world without children, and without novelty. In any case your memories would die, hence you would slowly die too. There's no escape.

The future is looking grim my friend... — EugeneW

Yes, although if the Russians lose this war, a ray of hope will briefly shine on us all.

I'm not talking about you, as I hope was clear.

Wouldn't that have let to war with every NATO member? — EugeneW

If Ukraine survives this attack as an independent state, next thing it does will be to join NATO. Russia will then come in direct geographic proximity with NATO, and it will be all thanks to Putin.

If Ukraine does not survive as an independent state and is absorbed (formally or not) into Russia, then Russia will de facto come into geographic contact with NATO (since Poland, Ukraine's western neighbour, is part of NATO). And it will be all thanks to Putin.

So Russia is now going to be neighboured by NATO, no matter the result of this war. Stances stiffen, neutral states like Finland are chosing their camp. Next time the Americans or the Russians fuck up, it'll be WW3.

Welcome to Cold War 2.

As for apportioning blame, I don't see the point of whining about Obama's actions or inactions while folks are getting killed by Russian bullets and missiles. Only Trump and @Isaac do that kind of obscenity. I trust the rest of us have some decency left.

Nothing odd there. If one suppresses death, one must also suppress life. They are two sides of the same coin. To live forever is exactly like being dead.

continuity is, as far as I'm concerned, "the soul". — 180 Proof

But you won't have continuity in your system. People over 100 yr old would forget all their childhood. If you forget your childhood, who are you?

So in your system our souls would die to save our aging bodies.

I'd rather make children and die, than live forever and forget who I am in the company of other very old and forgetful people. I guess I just don't love old people the way I love children.

Why would you actively want an attack on US complicity to lose its force? — Isaac

I suspect he doesn't want to be complicit with Putin, which he would be if he spread irrelevant disculpatory blah in the midst of a war.

Paul also should be recognized as departing from '2nd Temple Judaism' when he said this world would be replaced by another one. — Paine

Not sure that is so original. Judaism was not monolithic back then , not as much as now anyway, and eschatologic hopes were a big thing.

You can't think of any similar situations in which governments have colluded to install regimes sympathetic to their interests. — Isaac

Isn't that precisely what Putin is trying to do, install in Ukraine a government sympathetic to his interests? And you find it disgusting like the rest of us, right?

the last thing we should be doing is escalating the situation with half-baked Hollywood storylines. — Isaac

Rest assured that none of what is said here will have any influence on the battlefield.

So our souls must die so that our bodies can live? Ironic...

Immortality would not be very different from death. Death by boredom. There would be no room for anything or anyone new. Things would be eternally static. One needs to destroy the old in order to construct the new. Death and life are two sides of the same coin.

Ukraine is not yet dead, nor its glory and freedom,
Luck will still smile on us brother-Ukrainians.
Our enemies will vanish, as the dew does in the sunshine,
And we, too, brothers, we'll live happily in our land.
We’ll not spare either our souls or bodies to get freedom
And we’ll prove that we, brothers, are of Kozak kin.



The lyrics constitute a slightly modified original first stanza of the patriotic poem titled "Ukraine Is Not Dead Yet," written in 1862 by Pavlo Chubynsky, a prominent ethnographer from the region of Ukraine's capital, Kiev. In 1863, Mykhailo Verbytsky composed music to accompany Chubynsky's text. The first choral performance of the piece was at the Ukraine Theatre in Lviv, in 1864. The song was first the national anthem of the Ukrainian People's Republic, Carpatho-Ukraine and later the independent post-Soviet Ukraine.

Singing and performance of the song was banned when Ukraine became part of the Soviet Union in 1922.

The official lyrics were changed slightly to say, "Ukraine's freedom has not yet perished, nor has her glory," instead of "Ukraine isn't dead yet, nor her glory or freedom," NationalAnthems.info says. Still, some online sites continue to use the "has not yet died," phrasing.

No doubt there are many differences including in terms of a personal relationship with God being less of a possibility or imperative in Plato than in 2nd Temple Judaism. Evidently Plato's One is not personalized like Yahweh is, and such personalization comes with advantages -- one can speak to Yahweh, ask Him questions, and sometimes He answers -- and disadvantages -- anthropomorphism.

If you're not scared enough already, imagine if Trump was president right now.

:death:

That is radically different from the talk of one cosmic order being replaced by a new one in the immediate future. Plotinus railed against those who said the cosmos needed to be saved from the evil that ruled it. He directed this rebuke toward the Gnostics: Paul could have taken their place in the penalty box. — Paine

But isn't the idea that matter is corrupt part and parcel of the platonic creed? It doesn't sound that different from the idea that the world is corrupt.

PS: if I can go a bit on a limb, as a Plato ignoramus, and ask you what what you think of the following comparison with some brands of 2nd Temple Jewish mysticism: in both cases it seems to me that a monotheist 'creation story' has to put forth a theory of how the world as we know it, full of contradictions, confusion and seeming imperfections and problems, could have been once created (or be eternally created) by one unique good god or principle. In other words: a theory of evil, or at least of imperfection.

The problem does not arise in polytheism, but one would logically expect that a unique, perfect, good god or principle would create a perfect, good, coherent world. But no matter how much philosophical distance and rationalisation you try to put between you and reality, reality always bites your ass in the end. That's the lesson of Candide. There is no justice in this world, there's only a hope for justice.

So the monotheist must explain this world apparent imperfection.

Plato, correct me if I'm wrong, wrote that ideality (ideal forms) when 'implemented' in reality can only be imperfect. Some currents of Jewish mysticism say that in the process of creation, something wrong happened (so to speak) but it couldn't have happened any other way: God's ideality had to compose its creation as necessarily separate from Him and hence imperfect. I think it's the same idea.