• A Secular Look At Religion
    So, the taboo against eating people may have become widespread because holding that taboo makes social cohesion easier.Brendan Golledge

    Eating people could also form a collectively sanctioned rite, permissible under strict adherence to the cultural form.The Fore tribe of Papua New Guinea are noted for suffering from prion disease (Kuru) from eating brains of their dead. It would be interesting to know whether the Fore would ever perform the ritual alone, outside of the social form, and whether that would be collectively deemed permissible. Or maybe we'd see it as comparable to not sharing a kind of rare meat, being excluded from a rare chance of honoring the dead, in egalitarian societies. Did everybody get a bit?

    Human sacrifice was also ubiquitous practice which one might consider as a universal taboo due its implications for 'tit for tat' social instability. However we may find many culturally permissible forms. This is just to draw up the distinction between publicly sanctioned acts which are performed as part of a social function which might otherwise be considered taboo outside of that.

    The Eucharist is a form of cannibalism, if the body and the blood of Christ is as an intelligible (trans)substance still classifiable as 'human'.
  • Can One Be a Christian if Jesus Didn't Rise
    Christians believe we can’t save ourselves. Whereas Hinduism and Buddhism place it all in our hands (or place the task of removing our hands from the picture, losing one’s self as up to us alone) and don’t speak of grace from God.Fire Ologist

    Meister Eckhart, German Catholic (1260-1328), might as well compare to the Yogi or a Buddhist given the strangeness of his poetic mysticism around 'birth of the Son' in the soul. Emptying oneself of everything, that the grace/Word of God may manifest, sounds eerily similar in practice to these other meditative traditions.

    "The second point is, what must a man contribute by his own
    actions, in order to procure and deserve the occurrence and the con
    summation of this birth in himself? Is it better to do something toward
    this, to imagine and think about God ? - or should he keep still and
    silent in peace and quiet and let God speak and work in him, merely
    waiting for God to act? Now I say, as I said before, that these words
    and this act are only for the good and perfected people, who have so
    absorbed and assimilated the essence of all virtues that these virtues
    emanate from them naturally, without their seeking; and above all
    there must dwell in them the worthy life and lofty teachings of our
    Lord Jesus Christ. They must know that the very best and noblest
    attainment in this life is to be silent and let God work and speak
    within. When the powers have been completely withdrawn from all
    their works and images, then the Word is spoken. Therefore he said,
    'In the midst of the silence the secret word was spoken unto me.'
    And so, the more completely you are able to draw in your powers
    to a unity and forget all those things and their images which you
    have absorbed, and the further you can get from creatures and their
    images, the nearer you are to this and the readier to receive it. If only
    you could suddenly be unaware of all things,10 then you could pass
    into an oblivion of your own body as St. Paul did, when he said,
    "Whether in the body I cannot tell, or out of the body I cannot tell;
    God knows it" (2 Cor. 1 2 :2). In this case the spirit had so entirely ab
    sorbed the powers that it had forgotten the body: memory no longer
    functioned, nor understanding, nor the senses, nor the powers that
    should function so as to govern and grace the body; vital warmth
    and body-heat were suspended, so that the body did not waste dur
    ing the three days when he neither ate nor drank. Thus too Moses
    fared, when he fasted for forty days on the mountain and was none
    the worse for it, for on the last day he was as strong as on the first.
    In this way a man should flee his senses, turn his powers inward and
    sink into an oblivion of all things and himself. Concerning this a
    master1 1 addressed the soul thus: 'Withdraw from the unrest of ex
    ternal activities, then flee away and hide from the turmoil of inward
    thoughts, for they but create discord.' And so, if God is to speak
    His Word in the soul, she must be at rest and at peace, and then
    He will speak His Word, and Himself, in the soul - no image, but
    Himself!"
    — Meister Eckhart, Sermon One
  • In praise of anarchy
    As I said, I can't really discuss things with someone like you.Clearbury

    Sounds like the final nail in the coffin that is this thread.
  • In praise of anarchy
    Sorry to have to burst your bubble, shatter your illusion, but reality just is not like this.Metaphysician Undercover

    This has been said maybe a dozen times in this thread already. The heart wants what the heart wants: justice without the tyrannies of justice, free market solutions for every problem, infinite resources, zero pollution, the perpetual health of the commons, a future of biological/social evolution without violence, a Jinn that grants 14 wishes in good faith...
  • Can One Be a Christian if Jesus Didn't Rise
    And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.Brenner T

    There could be a mystic interpretation of this quote which shatters the otherwise dull Christian rote literalist dogma.

    Meister Eckhart might've referred to the virgin birth as something that happens inside of us. When
    "Christ resurrects", it might happen somewhere other than just a literal tomb and a historical body 2000+ years ago.

    In Eckhart's vision, God is primarily fecund. Out of overabundance of love the fertile God gives birth to the Son, the Word in all of us. Clearly,[d] this is rooted in the Neoplatonic notion of "ebullience; boiling over" of the One that cannot hold back its abundance of Being. Eckhart had imagined the creation not as a "compulsory" overflowing (a metaphor based on a common hydrodynamic picture), but as the free act of will of the triune nature of Deity (refer Trinitarianism). — Wikipedia: Meister Eckhart
  • My Lord! Those Peasants Are Doing 'Spanish Practices!'
    92 ‘Spanish practices’

    Wonder if Amazon (corporation) workers in anywhere in the world could get away with this, or is the labor monitoring so fine-tuned that it makes the potential for 'Spanish practices' pretty much impossible. Amazon seems to benefit greatly from the prospect of infinite worker turn-over but I'm not so sure its sustainable.

    If we are on the side of exploited and under paid labor, it's not so much a pejorative term. There is always a limit beyond which exploited labor becomes exploitative labor though. When the entire workforce has a stake in ownership and gains from productivity, co-workers might share in the bosses' concerns.

    Have heard of the mythical Mondrogon corporation. Americans would do well to learn about work cooperatives in school if wasn't always considered anti-American socialist propaganda.
  • My Lord! Those Peasants Are Doing 'Spanish Practices!'
    But, surprisingly, there is another interpretation around on behalf of trade unions or workers. Doing unauthorised working methods with the aim of being listened by the bosses and changing the labour conditions.javi2541997

    If only labor collaboration could be so unified in good faith and by fellowship. These practices are like the softest/benign version of a strike, which I'm sure happens now and again in various forms where it is tolerated.

    Am sure there are very interesting examples of it written down somewhere.
  • My Lord! Those Peasants Are Doing 'Spanish Practices!'
    There is no doubt that a lot of time spent waffling at the TPF is just another example of these "Spanish practices".

    Until the boss is allowed corporate-level productivity monitoring, we will all keep getting away with acting like Spaniards, drinking wine at all hours, taking naps on the company's time, and mistaking giants for windmills.
  • In praise of anarchy
    When I think about everyone I’ve ever met, and pick the individuals who I believe might run amok if government disappeared tomorrow, the number is very close to zero. And just dealing with people in my day-to-day leads me to believe that people aren’t as anti-social as statists make them out to be.NOS4A2

    Consider whether or not you, or the average person, is capable of vengeance. Can a single violent crime (ex. the rape of a loved one) initiate a feedback cycle of violence in a community due to the natural need/impulse for retributive justice (tit for tat). If violence is by some measure socially contagious, or escalates new conflicts, then it may only take one bad apple to ruin the batch.

    Blood feuds were common in societies with a weak rule of law (or where the state did not consider itself responsible for mediating this kind of dispute), where family and kinship ties were the main source of authority. — Wikipedia:Feud

    Feud
  • In praise of anarchy
    The irony, though, is that your cartel government acts just like your enlightened one, with slight variation.NOS4A2

    Yes and you continue to desire what you'll never have. You're stuck with the government your stuck with.
  • In praise of anarchy
    Anarchists/libertarians want to eat their cake and have it too. They always want justice in the absence of a formal system of justice. If everything were perfect, well life would just be peaches and cream until the end of days.

    Imagine you're a Mexican avocado farmer and all of a sudden one day a gang of armed men show up and blackmail you to pay protectionist tax. This cartel "government" will always inevitably appear and you'll wish you'd had recourse to be protected by the services of a more enlightened/fair system. Of course there is the option of collaborative defense but that might take a commitment to share resources, to risk defending others so they will risk defending you.

    Or, as T Clark mentioned, you have a nice piece of land with a river you rely on for subsistence, and one day it turns a mineral red and stinks to high heaven. You can't drink or fish anymore. Maybe you can't even stomach the smell. Too bad for you, if whoever is contaminating the river has a self-determined right to do so. Better break out the guns again and take back the purity of your river, if you can. Maybe your family is large enough and subservient enough to want to help you go to war.
  • 'It was THIS big!' as the Birth of the God Concept
    The oneupmanship is more or less an idea that could have also had a wider effect on theological and ethical discussions.I like sushi

    Javra's distinction of "power over" versus "power with" in terms of competition and collaboration is appropriate. There is just as much room for the evolution of gods/God within mundane collaborative activities, like in the simple retelling of a story which the audience curates through feedback. I suppose you could say wanting to appeal to an audience is a kind of one upmanship of the self, even when there is no direct competitor involved. If everyone has heard the same old story a hundred times before, acceptable novelty might be encouraged.

    The capacity to dream up supernormal stimuli and automatic conceptual fusions also may furnish the first abstract ontological dualism (spirit versus matter). The gods may just as well fall out of the dream world, if it is taken as evidence of a whole hidden world-in-itself.
  • 'It was THIS big!' as the Birth of the God Concept
    For this reason I think the heart of the matter of the God concept is due to a break in the means of passing on knowledge and/or uninitiated people misconstruing the stories - basically mistaking the map for the landscape.I like sushi

    Still seems like a reductive conclusion, in light of the cool responses in this thread. Are you just saying the God concept is just another meme, like everything else that might replicate through a game of telephone? It's very Dawkinish/Dennetish. The misconstrual is at times intentional, the flourish of a will to subordinate, teach or delight others, like telling your kids a fat man in a red suit delivers gifts globally to deserving children on Christmas Eve (because your parents did it to you).

    Suppose we look into the heavens and see our cultural constellations as gods, with narrative exploits attached to them. We've connected the dots of known stars in familiar patterns as a shared mnemonic/coordinating device for potential navigation. Imbuing those patterns with a godly/sacred significance, story, might serve useful functions from an evolutionary point of view.

    We are still sharing consensus dreams (myths) insofar as our maps can never fully close in upon the landscape.

    Circles don't exist either, just like the gods. They are just another mathematical meme or organizing principle in a game of telephone. Ok...
  • Backroads of Science. Whadyaknow?
    It's not part of a grand scientific narrative but you should see the blue carousel bird's courtship ritual.



    The social aspect of this collaborative dance troop in training is remarkable (as it reminds me of us). Does kinship explain the cooperation of the junior males? Can more genetically distant birds join a troop? How much variation in the style of dance between populations is there? If we could award a species for the most interesting/complex courtship ritual, who are the contenders?
  • Art Lies Beyond Morality
    A possible metaphor at the root of this post is closed and open structures in the universe and what that means in relationship to growth, adaptation on all levels.

    Here we extend the view to any structure which you could draw a circle around: the individual, couple, family, neighborhood, community, town, city, state, nation...

    The transgressive self-aware role play of the artist tries to tinker with aspects of a closed structure to change it for the sake of... novelty, amusement, compassion, beauty, justice, catharsis, uility... The reconfiguration of the world can be pushed to all limits but there is inevitably a threshold of destruction, where the potentially adaptive structure falls apart, crumbles, dies. A human dies and so does a nation.

    Jesus thinks himself the Jewish Messiah, the young lamb, while the conservatives sigh and shake their fists "this is not the way, you are messing with the way we do things". Such an innocent play by a young man becomes etched into history as a play of the Passion. They nailed this Jew to a cross and it flowered into the rite of atonement. Now we can do it in the school play.

    Jesus, the existentialist role player, is condemned for being inclusive. The act of inclusion is the act of compassion, but this warrants the pious moralizers to expel him. It was just a happy accident, if we must look on it that way.

    The critical difference between morality and art is that the former prioritizes exclusion, whereas the latter prioritizes inclusion.ucarr

    The dogmatic face of morality prioritizes exclusion for greater or lesser freedoms. The free flying artist prioritizes inclusion at risk but you can just as well envision such work as a great act of exclusion, being set in opposition to the collective "morality" of life's tiresome busybody bullshit. Life is just maintenance of structures until death and in that we must tweak, convulse and dance to make the boredom bearable.

    The hunger artist, tired of the morality of eating, says, "not today, not tomorrow, maybe the next day". Perhaps there no food on this Earth that isn't tinged with weariness of living. The Jains have an ancient rite of ritual starvation, Sallekhana, in the name of compassion for all living things, to expunge all karmas. It might be reserved for older folks but as a statement I think it is very beautiful. Should the state make that ritual illegal?

    How strange and transgressive it would be to consider suicide an art form.
  • Perception of Non-existent objects
    your dream has a bit of coherencejavi2541997

    It has full coherence in the context of my personal experience. It is just an exaggeration of my worries in the mundane realm.

    According to your dreams, wouldn't you accept that there could be two realities?javi2541997

    One reality, two reality, three reality... I'll defer to whatever the consensus is on this as ultimately I don't think it makes much of a difference.
  • Perception of Non-existent objects
    Yet I wouldn't say that all dreams lead me to illusional notions.javi2541997

    Often and recently what occurs in my dreams are supernormal stimului which refer directly to the normal everyday world, and just emerge out of interior worries.

    In the real world I am a custodian of a meditation center and a Japanese inspired garden.

    In the dream world:

    I am the sole custodian of a miniature city (think of the Vatican) with endless water terraces. The subterranean pumping network is endless and so are the levers and buttons. It is altogether too much for a single person to take care of (I get lost). As a lone individual I cannot contain or control the pilgrims who come to the city and treat it as if it were a tourist attraction, who transgress every rule that they were blind to from eagerness to see. The crowd is too big and chaotic to learn how to approach the place.

    At other times:

    The miniature city/state is completely empty and I go in search of company I cannot find, getting lost.
  • Perception of Non-existent objects
    I believe the two worlds (dreamlike and real) exist.javi2541997

    But this is not true with respect to consensus reality. Also the physical world, which everybody would agree "exists" because it is self-evident, has a relative (illusory/dreamlike) appearance to whatever organism is conscious of it.

    We're always inevitably going to hit our heads against the old wall of the "world-in-itself", as if it could/should exist without the perspective of the local observer. As a networking species of consensus making, we will always fall back on the common sense notions for knowing the difference between what is meant by an illusion and the thing that the illusion references in a third-party verifiable world.

    To scare children on Halloween!?RussellA

    You might be scaring the "adults" too.
  • Kant and Covert Assault Zen


    Well, Shawn, pack your bags. We're going to Hollywood.
  • Kant and Covert Assault Zen


    No one is reading the what is in the Lounge, let alone the forum to make that a concern, unless you want to fall into a conspiracy trap. Maybe it could involve the cyber intelligence wing of Scientology. What services would they be using? Cruise has higher aspirations than to be paranoid about critics and fan boys.

    Baden is just being a jerk at the jerkfest, to mock the fools as a fool worth mocking, which is different from being a pious philosopher at the forum (I think?). Mysteries of mysteries, who knows WTFIGO.

    Baden wrote that story about the Captain needing his sack flipped. That must've been Cruise.
  • Art Lies Beyond Morality
    I have a notion that religion and politics are either nearly or even exactly the same thing. There's a Gordian knot linking religion, politics and morality.ucarr

    There is politics in the conservation/construction of any way of being, wherever there are priests and parishioners (politicians and the public) who are "relating to the citizens", promoting the rules and regulation of that way of being in dialectical good will. It's complicated for sure.

    Socrates, the founding father of a type of novel dialectic, was condemned by the state.

    I heard some notable Rabbi make the comment that Judaism is "portable civilization". You can carry the art of being Jewish from one place to another and endure or enjoy life through it. But one Rabbi might say you have to cut off the skin of your wiener to be a member of the tribe, while another might say that is unnecessary.

    And don't forget about Jesus who broke the walls of Judaism wide open to invite the peoples of all nations... if that is what he did. He was the seed of the Christian tree, with all of its ever growing and flowering branches.
  • Art Lies Beyond Morality
    In Church the service is sometimes spiritless, rote, depressing, restrictive. You skip out and go to the movies to watch Euripedes', The Bacchae, to watch in indignant horror, Pentheus, get ripped apart by his own deluded mother, who is possessed by the madness of a cruel god. All for what, the poor guy (though he was a king) didn't believe in a foreign deity of some pantheon. So turns the wheel of Samsara.

    Pentheus, as they guy who transgresses good taste or law, by impiety, is here to be considered in the guise of an evil artist as a sacrificial victim, much like Jesus (perceived to be impious by whatever transgression got him killed). Oh the virtue of piety! What impious artist makes a Christian run back to church?

    If ucarr is transgressing the bounds of implicit/explicit virtue/etiquette as an artist contra the philosopher, maybe he is the evil artist.

    He must run back to church to give what that unanimous crowd demands, in an alignment of the sensible wills of such a peer group: good, clear, hygienic, rigorous and rational sense in selfless service.

    Chatgpt may give us a lecture on piety:

    "Piety" refers to a deep respect for and devotion to religious practices, beliefs, or duties. It often involves a reverence for the divine, as well as a commitment to moral and ethical principles associated with one’s faith. People who exhibit piety typically demonstrate their religious devotion through regular worship, prayer, rituals, and adherence to religious teachings.

    In a broader sense, piety can also encompass loyalty, respect, and duty toward one’s family, community, or country, reflecting a sense of duty and honor in relationships and responsibilities. The concept is commonly associated with virtues such as humility, reverence, and obedience to higher moral or spiritual authority.
    — ChatGPT on Piety
  • Kant and Covert Assault Zen
    We're not supposed to talk about Cum Cruise.
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    In fact, not the least bit evil and in no ways like a writing-desk.Vera Mont

    Thanks for humoring me a bit. :pray: It maybe healthy to leave the desk behind now and again to watch the birds.
  • Kant and Covert Assault Zen
    Makes me feel rather guilty. I should just STFU and become a nun. :death:

    Though there is a perceived lack of humility and good will in the elites, which trickles down the line.
  • Art Lies Beyond Morality
    It is another one of my central points of focus: the artist wants to threaten the beautiful woman with something of interest menacing her composure.ucarr

    Am looking forward to Robert Eggers Nosferatu, and the premise is related, pushed to the limit. A young bride is being possessed to the horror of everyone around her, by a really awful demon that wants to copulate with her and she with it (my assumption based on trailer).

    But that demon represents what is in us, both men and women, turned up to a degree which threatens an entire community. It is the Id overgrown into a deity, our shadow grown titanic (before which we awe and tremble), the frightful nightmare of human desire gone awry. The transgressions which threaten the status quo in concentric circles from family to nation is a vision of the monster. What is monsterous (akin to all that is deified) is the breakdown of the boundaries of the sacred order, as all kinds of terrible fusions/transgressions occur (like in the transitions of H. Bosch's paintings).

    The whole drama is just a meditation on those sinful desires, which can serve a moral function, in so far as we can become aware that they represent the forces within us.

    Your thesis sounds in someway evocative or at least relevant to Rene Girard's work (a very weird but interesting kind of Christian). He draws a line between unanimous expulsion of the scapegoat, to the sacrificial rites as what imbues archaic culture with its powers to keep order. It's all very mysterious, archetypal and mythic but it resonates with me.

    We are within the ring of the cult/community which may expel us at any time. It just a never ending set of taboos that forms the thresholds of our social structure.

    Art makes us aware of those parts of our human nature that, for one reason or another, we are blind to, so the evil-mongering artist who speaks to your soul should not be foregone because s/he drives you home to yourself, and without your homecoming to yourself, you can make no authentic approach to virtue.ucarr

    I think you are right. Artists are another kind of God's priests. They form the other pole of the oscillation you speak of that keeps us on the middle path between two kinds of hell.

    Moralizers often carry a lot of filth in their own shadows. The evil-mongering artist can do a lot with that.
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    @Vera Mont

    In the following link, a bird watcher hears a greater racket-tailed drongo mimic the sound of a crested serpent eagle to protect its nest. It's a bit of a taxonomic gap from the corvids but am sure the corvids have some interesting predator/prey dynamics on account of how intelligent people say they are. The sociality of corvids probably makes such defensive/offensive mimicry unecessary.

    Tale of the Avian Trickster

    The calls and croaks of ravens/crows may direct other scavengers, like coyotes and wolves, in tracking quarry. No mimicry is necessarily involved here (but I'd like to know if it ever is). It's just like the association that forms for the cattle egret, as the birds are drawn by the sound of lawn mowers for what it draws out of the grass. What can be stolen from, opened or left behind by the canids/mowers is propitious for the birds.

    Maybe ravens don't know what they are doing, just like the writing desks.
  • Art Lies Beyond Morality
    (There is a proffered escape clause, but nowadays that business is too controversial, so I’m leaving it out.)ucarr

    Very interesting post but you should've left this out if you don't want us to ask what this controversial escape clause is. Is it obvious? You must be sinning here.
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    can't be fooled by soundVera Mont

    Many species do predator call mimicry. If the nest is being attacked they make the sound of even larger predator to scare off and deter the threat.
  • Human thinking is reaching the end of its usability
    The urge to think is a strong one, and one of my big questions is why evolution switched from non-thinking (animals) to only-thinking (humans). But any meditation practice is meant to relax that urge.Carlo Roosen

    An interesting analogy would be in the dance of sexual selection, where the subject/object of your desire demands a great performance. If you pass the test, you get to mate. On the other side, you play competitive sports with your own rivals to practice for ever new encounters. The competition of either the love or war dance ensues, age after age, and they are both linked (ex. the Trojan War of Homer's epic). The evolutionary pressure in competition generates new ways of doing (grows the capacity for doing) which get copied for all kinds of ends.

    The ability to manipulate the world via thought has been so tremendous that what constitutes the transient subject/object of anyone's desire is so incredibly varied. But behind it all everyone is still just "getting off" in one way or another, under the restrictions and sublimation of culture.
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    @Vera Mont



    Maybe their imitation is in very limited in scope and range, as their squawks sound much lower frequency than many little song birds. Haven't heard anything very delicate or melodic from them. So yes, am attributing far too much in their capacity, as harsh squawky black birds.
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    Neither can sing.Vera Mont

    Ravens can mimic song like many other Corvids. I wonder what they get up to in a natural setting, whether they imitate other birds. Could ravens lure prey out with imitation, as a tactic? I would be comfortable with the belief that no birds sing, if primarily a human affair. So, neither can sing if none ever do sing.

    Both are evil.praxis

    Well, I imagine you're wearing your Puritanical vestments, brush in hand, looking forward to guiding the wayward spirits this All Saints' Eve to their proper places in hell. The dark raven man is menacing and inky, standing on his desk. Perhaps he is Poe's vengeful spirit.

    They aren't evil. It is the third figure that fuses them together in mind, the weirdo animal that sits, thinks, writes and paints, is the most cunning agent of strife, who ponders nonsense riddles. It is the lunatic raven man that turns the charming bird meeting of a "murder" and a "conspiracy" into real murder and conspiracy (sometimes at a desk).
  • AI and pictures
    Looks like AI generators have the same skill issue that Adolf Hitler had. Either the perspective is wrong or its just an aberration of architectural features.

    Now that the story level problem is solved, how do you solve the windows and doors problem?
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    How is a closet like a blue tit?Baden

    If only we could make Socrates a bit glad and mad with the question.
    He is somewhere, strolling about, talking with poets,
    Extolling the virtues of stranger comparisons.

    How is a closet like a blue tit?
    Half of the question is up in the air, flitting about, like those birds I can't see.
    Half of one solution is in a gun closet.

    To shoot or not to shoot, that is the question
    For the sake of an innocent inquiry.

    Rather we also wait with patience, a cage in hand
    Adventuring in dales of the countryside
    Cunning and quiet
    Climbing trees to steal (t)its progeny.

    One dead, one living
    One closeted, one caged

    All for the sake of a needful comparison:

    How is a blue tit like a closet?
  • How is a raven like a writing desk?
    Perhaps I'm missing the deeper meaning of this topicOutlander

    Doubtful. The topic is as shallow or a deep as you'd like it to be. It actually requires others, like yourself, to give it depth or shallowness. And books, mountains of books! Maybe a living and a dead Raven would help too.

    The negative feedback from both sources tortured Edgar Allen Poe while inspiring him at the same time.Paine

    Henry James wrote the following, perhaps on or at a desk: “An enthusiasm for Poe is the mark of a decidedly primitive stage of reflection.” I wonder if James would say that about Borges.

    Bryan W. Proctor: “Edgar Allan Poe was incontestably one of the most worthless persons of whom we have any record in the world of letters.” Ouch. Quoth the Ravens: "Nevermore!"

    Source -->Twenty-Five Ways to Roast the Raven
  • All joy/success/pleasure/positive emotion is inherently the same (perhaps one-dimensional?)
    I guess it just seems to me there's always more "going on" when it comes to a negative experience or circumstance than a happy positive one where basically nothing is "going on" or like was said "requires no response" and "sets no challenge".Outlander

    One could just as well affirm the opposite of this. Some states of first world discomfort, the emptiness of modern material life from the perspective of a depressed person, "require no response" and "set no challenge" if everything worth pursuing has been given up on. There is no energy left beyond the rutted work of the high standard of our wealthy subsistence (eat, sleep, work, repeat). That is pretty dull.

    Though one could characterize the battle to hold on and keep pushing that rock up the hill as a challenge too, to strive against the final surrender to the unknown or the fear of a downward spiral, becoming those sad, forgotten people on the street.

    It sounds like a state which "requires no response" and "sets no challenge" isn't really a contented one. Hedonic adaptation is possibly a big complicating factor of our human experience. I think it is going to destroy society (ongoing). One can become accustomed/jaded to ever new levels of experience. I always think about Peter Thiel in this regard of boundless desire. He has 5 billion dollars in a tax free Roth IRA and yet has some weird motivation to mold the world according to his immoral Libertarian dream (that the world should belong to those who can take/shape it and flavors of "might makes right"). There is definitely something wrong with Thiel and maybe it is that he is deeply unhappy. He needs to forever ascend to new challenges, no matter how terrible they seem to us.
  • If you were God, what would you do?
    The archaic metaphysics/myths of Indian religion (Vedanta/Hinduism) seems to have room for all manifestations of God.

    Paramatman/brahman is supposedly devoid of all attributes, despite the attributes of the "absolute", "eternal" and "blissful" sticking to it. It is a true enigma. Is it just the space in which all things occur?

    God is empty of God, until some representative/avatar swoops down to try to tell you about extending your cars warranty.
  • All joy/success/pleasure/positive emotion is inherently the same (perhaps one-dimensional?)
    Depression/anhedonia as a sort of locked flat state without the alternation of good emotion, could be characterized as one dimensional. Though even here there is a rhythm of what the mind presents to itself in pulses of exacerbating negativity as a vicious circle, as if one had an itchy wound which when scratched causes both relief and new pain. Maybe sadism/masochsim could be means for such folks to find relief by emotional alternation, or as an solution for a dullness which seems at times intolerable.

    Happy lives perhaps are full of wonderful dynamism, balanced in a natural cycle of highs and lows. Contentment pursues itself, not without challenge; it just hasn't been upended and forever frustrated by intractable problems/situations or a perpetual feeling of doom.
  • If you were God, what would you do?
    If I was God, I wouldn't do what I would do if I was God.unenlightened

    But what would you do that you wouldn't do? That is what we do and don't want to know.