I suspect they are both, but when I think of a hologram I like to think it is the non-particle manifestation of reality. — James Riley

Yes, thinking in terms of particles, or anything discrete, is a major hindrance to grasping the nature of reality. Daoism and other philosophies always use waves in their imagery.

Think of it as a Universal Mind (an ocean) with Individual Minds (waves in the ocean). Of course, A Hologram with everything existing everywhere is another equivalent way of imaging it.

Check out Stephen Robbins on YouTube for a very interesting series on the Holographic Universe.

If reincarnation is not bound by time i.e. deaths and rebirths are temporally unrestricted (people who die in the future being reborn in the past, the converse scenario being a non-issue) could insights be memories? — TheMadFool

Time is not linear and bidirectional, but is the experience of change, and of what is morphing into what is becoming. Memory never dies. It is embedded in the fabric of the Universe, as the light of a star.

I am certainly wishing to go beyond dualism. — Jack Cummins

There is no reason to entertain dualism. Everything is light/quanta in a holographic form.

But time and chronology don't work in a linear fashion for All. — James Riley

Time is not linear, it is the experience of change.

I have a vague understanding of the holograph, but it's a lay-understanding for sure. I've no doubt, though, that All would be fine with it's perception, and the perception of it's parts, being the observation of, or participation in a holograph. — James Riley

Yes, if you consider the Universe as a hologram, and we are all part of it, you can imagine the movement within the hologram, and perception as a reconstructive beam. Light and Mind and Quanta are synonymous.

and I definitely think that some dualism has drifted in that direction. — Jack Cummins

There is no reason to invoke dualism. "Matter", is an ancient and completely outmoded way of looking at things. Everything is quanta (Mind). How does quanta (Mind) create matter? By compression of waves. Just like water becomes ice. How do we "feel" it differently? Feeling is an interesting idea as it is something the Mind created.

With determinism, you can't have your cake and eat it. It is all or nothing.

What I said here was determined, but was it meaningful? — ghostlycutter

To you maybe, because it was determined that you have that feeling, but not to me, because it was determined I would respond in this way.

" probabilities of the determined system"

"Probabilities In determined system" may have meaning to you, but it was determined it would have no meaning to you. There is no reasoning, just a feeling of reasoning. We have no choices.

Lao Tzu is a bit ambiguous about that. He says different things in different verses. Yin and yang are only mentioned once in the Tao Te Ching, in Verse 42. He doesn't mention qi or chi at all. — T Clark

The there basic elements of Taiji are Yin, Yang, and Qi. It is the moving wave that one experiences when practicing Taiji. To understand the Dao De Jing, one must experience it. Words are insufficient. 42 explains how the Universe began.

As I've mentioned before, I am not at all clear what takes place "in the gap between the Tao 10,000 things" or how wu wei works. — T Clark

There is no gap. It starts as One, then by turning onto itself, it becomes a standing wave (yin/yang). Then with movement (qi), there is a spiraling wave which creates everything.

When you study Taiji, all movements arise from an internal spiral.

Science is not a report. It is a method for understanding the causes of what happens. The method does require being able to repeat experiments and recognize competing explanations of phenomena.

The method has brought powerful tools into the world with both constructive and destructive potential. The matter has progressed far beyond whether to believe a Shaman or not. — Valentinus

There is no method or understanding in determinism. There is only determined events. You may "feel" like there is up understanding and methods, only if the determined event is that feeling within you (don't ask me how these feelings come about). Others may not have that feeling, hence my remarks that that were also determined. So if I disagree with you, it is only because we are involved in different determined events. If we discuss or not discuss, it is all determined. Let's see what events happen. It's exciting isn't it?

Have I got it right? According to you to, relativity doesn't work? — tim wood

For a very limited set of problems, the equations work. Beyond that, I have no idea what they offer other than paradoxes. Where there are paradoxes, there is failure.

If you wish to mount an argument, you will first need to recant. — Banno

There is no argumentation in a deterministic world. What is interesting, is thst what seems to be arguing even exists given the nature of determinism.

I, do not dwell in this world, but anyone who does, is faced with this conundrum and how to deal with it on a personal level.

Then why does it work so well? — tim wood

It doesn't.

There is a performative contradiction in what you are saying that undermines your account. — Banno

It all depends upon:

Is the contradiction one of perspective, or

Inherent and inescapable in a determinastic life.

That's because it was only ever invented as a way to preserve the doctrine of a fixed C - doctrine over reality. — Gary Enfield

I agree.

If time consists of past-present-future, then how big a slice of time does the present represent? In other words, how do we apportion the past present future(?) — 3017amen

The past is what we are as a whole. An experience that are memories. The present, is the sense of becoming different. Of memory changing. The future, is an image of what might become as a possibility. All of which we feel as time.

Maybe time is just an illusion. — 3017amen

Time is essentially the experience of change within our experiences/memory. In essence, Mind is Time.

This process of self-awareness implies a third-person... — 3017amen

Why so? The Mind is looking upon itself.

T

I have never felt any strong connection between Tai Chi and the Tao Te Ching. I'd be interested in hearing how you see it. — T Clark

Taiji is a practice that ultimately allows you to experience "effortless movement", which is an internal flow without willfulness. One is very relaxed and it "happens". It is the flow of the Universe (Dao).

But not to make too much of this. One can arrive at similar experiences by painting, dancing, or playing a musical instrument. The essence is relaxation. It just so happens I first felt it, because of my long Taiji practice. Most teachers will inhibit the discovery, because in their manner of teaching, they implicitly call upon the students to "willfully" do a movement. This is counterproductive. The movement had to be relaxed, natural, and emanating from the Spirit (the Heart). It is the same for all activities of arts and sports.

I don't see why the presence of 2 types of stuff underpinning reality is such a problem. Where is the conceptual difficulty in imagining two types of material underpinning the universe, and them interacting with each other? Why does that have to become two aspects of the same stuff? — Gary Enfield

Two types of stuff interacting in the Universe? Interacting in what? The fabric of the Universe. It is much more straight-forward to think of the fabric as a continuous wave form, similar to how one imagines a hologram. What is that waveform? My suggestion, it is the Mind (consciousness in its broadest definition, which includes
Unconsciousness). This would be similar to what Bohm proposed.

I have been practicing Taiji for 35 years, and it was at about 15 years that I first "experienced" the nature of universal "flow", i.e. action (movement) without willful intention. Subsequently, I was able to teach students how to "experience it", in less time, but not in a willful manner, but by just allowing it to happen. Still, it takes many years of "practice" (habituation). Further, I began to apply this experience to all arts, including music, dancing, drawing, and singing.

Hence, the nature of the Universe can be discovered and experienced, but not fully translated into words as in the case of all feelings and emotions. One must feel loss to understand it, but words are inadequate. There is nothing mysterious in Daoism, just feelings and emotions to be discovered.

Again, then it is true that: there is no such thing as truth in a philosophy where everything is determined. — Banno

There is a distinction. In a deterministic universe, the sentence is merely an utterance without meaning. The word exists. That's all.

Admittedly, most determinists do not fully embrace their own philosophy, however the point is quite clear: There is no such thing as truth in a philosophy where everything is determined. What exists is a series of determined events, or whatever happens.

I prefer to characterize it as "this is determinism".

I think that you are really trying to point to the weaknesses in determinism, but it is just a little confusing, because in some ways you are trying to go through the steps of determinist views, in perhaps a slightly caricaturist way. — Jack Cummins

It is as the topic suggests. Is there such a thing as objective truth in the context of determinism? It is not a caricature. It is discussing the meaning(less) of truth in a determinastic philosophy.

So, you are suggesting that all our meanings are determined. I think that I follow your basic argument, but I am not sure that it is any more objectively valid than less determinist viewpoints. — Jack Cummins

Non-determinism permits independent, creative thinking, i.e. new insights as a result of intuition. It happens as a spontaneous burst of recognition. This is something wholely new, and undetermined by any previous event. My topic, was MY topic, created by my mind.

↪MondoR
But surely owning or disowning determinism, or any other system only makes sense in the context of any particular framework of meanings. — Jack Cummins

Of course. Is there meaning in a series of sounds? There is, if it has been determined you believe so. You are not choosing anything, including your beliefs.

So it's not all equal... — Banno

That's the beauty of determinism. It doesn't matter. The dominos keep falling as we all await the next utterances with bated breath. It's thrilling.

Why can't that happen in a determined universe? — noname

Everything that happens has been determined to happen. It is the meaningfulness that comes into a
question. You say something. I say something. All is determined. All is equal. You believe it is more than equal. It's determined that you believe it is more than equal. And so it goes.

I read your thread introduction now and I am not convinced about your basis, 'Everything is as it is determined to be'. This seems too simplified, and on what basis is that determined? I think that needs to be explored more, before you go on to the wider exploration of objective truth. — Jack Cummins

If you believe there is meaning to the notion of exploration, then yes. But the moment you apply meaning to exploration, you have disowned determinism.

Try this for a starting point. Remember, most of what you asked reading is from a Western bias perspective. Hoover, given the importance of astronomy (astrology) to trade, it is highly likely there was an interchange of cultural knowledge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_astrology

How would an undetermined universe change your concern? Wouldn't statements still be utterances and so on? — noname

There is room for independent exploration, discovery, insights, and communication emanating from the individual mind. Nothing is determined. Disagreement and agreement is meaningful.

And it follows that there are truths. — Banno

As a determined utterance. It's all equal.
Determinism is quite egalitarian, bless its soul.

Hence, there are true statements — Banno

In a deterministic context, just utterances. Only someone believing in a non-deterministic thinking (i.e. insights) might be able to put more value into utterances. In this case, there is truly independent exploration, observation, and insights. To put it another way, there is no meaning to life unless one allows for it.

That tells us about you, not about the universe. — Banno

The Universe is what it is. It is me making sounds and you making sounds. Just shuffling along.

That's a profoundly muddled post. — Banno

In a deterministic context, it was been determined that you said that and I wrote this. Shrug. Just utterances with no meaning or purpose. I can only dispute you, if it was determined. What ever will be, will be.

How is everyone correct in a determined universe? Why can't there still be truths and falsehoods? — noname

How can there be a Truth when everything is Determined. You can only have someone uttering that something is true. There is NO independent discovery of anything. It's all just billiard balls colliding into each other and making sounds.