And your opinion as to the most likely outcome?
— Punshhh

I don't really have one. At a guess I'd say that there'll either be a deal which gives independence to Dombas and Crimea... — Isaac

Vladimir Putin's 'end date' for Ukraine war matches Russia's WW2 victory, spooks say
Reports from inside Ukraine and Russia have suggested that the Kremlin is eyeing a potential end date for its invasion of Ukraine, considering May 9, the anniversary for their WWII Victory Day

Specifically, it is seeking air and naval facilities on the island of Skyros that could be used by either rotational or permanent U.S. units, Kathimerini reported.

Skyros is in the center of the Aegean and would give U.S. ships and aircraft quicker access to the Black Sea, where NATO has sought to expand operations over concerns about Russian aggression.

U.S. European Command has stepped up operations across Greece over the past few years, establishing a steadier foothold in the strategic eastern Mediterranean in response to Russia.

China’s growing economic clout in the area, which includes control of the Greek port at Piraeus, also concerns U.S. military officials.

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. It argues that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion", by means of the propaganda model of communication.[1] The title refers to consent of the governed, and derives from the phrase "the manufacture of consent" used by Walter Lippmann in Public Opinion (1922).[2] The book was honored with the Orwell Award.

The introduction describes man's inability to interpret the world: "The real environment is altogether too big, too complex, and too fleeting for direct acquaintance"[2] between people and their environment. People construct a pseudo-environment that is a subjective, biased, and necessarily abridged mental image of the world, and to a degree, everyone's pseudo-environment is a fiction. People "live in the same world, but they think and feel in different ones."[3]

Public Opinion proposes that the increased power of propaganda and the specialized knowledge required for effective political decisions have rendered the traditional notion of democracy impossible.

Still, with Ukraine’s future in doubt, investors who own Ukrainian bonds will have a hard time selling them in the foreseeable future, says Trang Nguyen, emerging-markets strategist at JPMorgan Chase & Co. “There might be international support to help Ukraine stay current on its debt at the moment,” she says. “But there is a big question mark about its sovereignty.”

The US and Britain say they are looking into reports that chemical weapons have been used by Russian forces attacking the Ukrainian port of Mariupol.

Ukraine's Azov regiment said three soldiers were injured by "a poisonous substance" in an attack on Monday.

However, no evidence has been presented to confirm the use of chemical weapons.

The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. — CNN

More is better is definitely not proving true in modern warfare. This has been true at least since Mole Cricket, where Syria scrambled 100 MiGs — Count Timothy von Icarus

- long term peace. — Benkei

Feudalism was the system in 10th-13th century European medieval societies where a social hierarchy was established based on local administrative control and the distribution of land into units (fiefs). A landowner (lord) gave a fief, along with a promise of military and legal protection, in return for a payment of some kind from the person who received it (vassal).

What a pathetic PR stunt by BoJo. Trying to viscerally be a war time prime minister. — Benkei

In my view Putin doesn't actually need the war to end then and shouldn't especially now have distractions from preparing accordingly for the next push. But as this takes time, so does the Ukrainians have time too. In days you cannot use totally new weapon systems, but in months you can do it. And Boris Johnson walking around Kyiv with Zelensky promised for example anti-ship missiles systems for Ukraine, which they have been lacking. In a month they could be fielded and hastily trained to use. — ssu

And what makes it so tragic is that when the Soviet Union collapsed the Russians avoided a bloody Civil War after the breakup of the Soviet Union (except in the Caucasus).

Yet now we do have that bloody civil war of the former Soviet Union. — ssu

The first examples of direct democracy can be found in the ancient Greek city-state of Athens, where decisions were made by an Assembly of some 1,000 male citizens.

It is impossible to foresee in advance exactly in which territories such a mass of the population will constitute a critically needed majority. The “Catholic province” (Western Ukraine as part of five regions) is unlikely to become part of the pro-Russian territories. The line of alienation, however, will be found empirically. It will remain hostile to Russia, but forcibly neutral and demilitarized Ukraine with formally banned Nazism. The haters of Russia will go there. The threat of an immediate continuation of the military operation in case of non-compliance with the listed requirements will be the the guarantee of the preservation of this residual Ukraine in a neutral state. Perhaps this will require a permanent Russian military presence on its territory.

Mar 7, 2022 · Russian Orthodox Church Leader Blames Invasion on Ukraine's 'Gay Pride' (Newsweek) — jorndoe

The church leader characterized pride parades as "loyalty tests," and said that countries looking to ally with Western powers must embrace them or be shunned

Ultimately, Kirill called the invasion of Ukraine a conflict about things "far more important than politics," and insinuated that the embrace of progressive western values would lead to the end of civilization.

"In Ukraine, rivers of blood and tears are flowing," the Pope said on Sunday while addressing followers in St. Peter's Square. "This is not just a military operation but a war which sows death, destruction and misery."

Vatican City, (CNA/EWTN News) - Praying a 'Hail Mary' for the people of Yemen, the pope urged people Feb. 3 to "pray hard, because there are children who are hungry, who are thirsty, who have no medicine, and are in danger of death," adding that "we take this thought home with us."

Francis was greeted by Abu Dhabi's Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, who escorted him to meet Sheikh Ahmed al-Tayeb, the Grand Imam of Egypt's Al-Azhar mosque and university, one of the main seats of learning of Sunni Islam. The pontiff embraced him. Both men will hold meetings with Pope Francis on Monday. The UAE plays a leading role in the Saudi-led coalition battling the Houthis in Yemen.

ROME — While people can be indifferent to wars in distant lands, they cannot afford to look the other way when war is at their doorstep, Pope Francis said.

The Pope called for more international dialogue in order to put an end to the conflicts in Syria, Yemen, Iraq and other regions of the world

with the rocket attack on Kramatorsk only the latest evidence

War is nothing more than the continuation of politics by other means.

Karl Von Clausewitz

media reports are simply war by other means.

Given that our world is primarily image-driven, it is natural to find this influence permeating the mass media complex, which would include advertising, news, print, radio, television, plays, film, graphic novels, and so on. The old military psychological warfare tactics have thus been combined with the advertising and media propaganda studies to create a massive complex that, in my estimation, is well intertwined.

Taking out all of them is not justice, revenge, or some blood lust, but simply that such depraved people in such a massive destructive force cannot be allowed to exist as a risk. — Christoffer

Once you start on the dark path, forever will it dominant your destiny, consume you it will.'''' -Jedi Master Yoda

The central tradition of mainline economics deals with only one way of making a living: namely, producing useful goods and services. But there is another way of getting ahead-- through conflict or the "dark side"--that is by appropriating what others have produced. Logically parallel or military aggression and resistance, the dark side includes nonmilitary activities such as litigation, strikes and lockouts, takeover contests, and bureaucratic back-biting struggles. This volume brings the analysis of conflict into the mainstream of economics. Part I explores the causes, conduct, and consequences of conflict as an economic activity. Part II delves more deeply into the evolutionary sources of our capacities, physical and mental, for both conflict and cooperation.

The show must go on, of course. The crisis continues. But the president’s performance — strained, awkward, often inappropriate — is hardly helping.

According to the poll, Zelensky is the first choice of fifty-one per cent of Americans, followed by President Biden at twenty-three per cent, Donald J. Trump at seventeen per cent, and Senator Josh Hawley at half of one per cent. — Olivier5

The US has pulled out of the United Nations Human Rights Council, calling it a "cesspool of political bias".

Nikki Haley, the US envoy to the UN, said it was a "hypocritical" body that "makes a mockery of human rights".

...sorry, who was the target again? — Isaac

Isn't Zelensky the reason this is still going on?

If he would have left the country, Ukraine would be part of Russia now, right?
— frank

Good point. That's probably true, and would explain the relentless character assassination attempts by the representative of the Federation of Russia on TPF. They also tried to kill him for real, twice. — Olivier5

Didn't the war start because of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and if Russia had somehow prevented the coup from taking place, then it would have avoided war?
— FreeEmotion

Exactly, you can keep making these sort of "debateoids" forever. — boethius

However, Western media will need to sell a peace deal to Western audience — boethius

I'm pretty they can get the Ukrainian perspective anytime of the day or night by turning on CNN. — boethius

Kremlin hopes operation in Ukraine ends ‘in coming days’
Either the Russian forces will reach their goals in Ukraine or Moscow and Kiev will reach an agreement in the near future, the Kremlin says — RT

I said he continued the war that Ukraine started by refusing to accept Crimea and Dombas right to self determination. — boethius

On 21 February 2014, Yanukovych and parliamentary opposition leaders signed an agreement calling for an interim government and early elections. The following day, Yanukovych fled Kyiv and later Ukraine;[89] parliament subsequently voted to remove him from office.[90][91][92] Leaders in Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine declared continuing loyalty to Yanukovych,[93] leading to pro-Russian unrest.[94] — Wikipedia

↪Benkei The war itself is one big atrocity, so if atrocities are not the issue, there is no reason to stop the war. Logic anyone? — Olivier5

I wrote a paper as part of my studies in 1998 predicting that treating Russia as a de facto enemy to be contained would be tantamount to a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is why I argued for economic integration before it got to that point. — Benkei

As warned about by Kissinger, the only way for Ukraine to survive was to pursue neutrality. The US made that impossible. — Benkei

Indoctrination is the enemy of the world, inventing narratives for people to be biased towards so they won't criticize what is actually going on, as well as making sure conspiracy theories won't blind people from real issues. Governments of the world must be somewhat glad about the extreme spread of conspiracy theories because they know those groups won't ever have enough power, but also that they get all the attention of the media and social media so that real issues and agendas become easier to hide. — Christoffer

Like how many are unable to criticize Russia enough for their actions in Ukraine, always moving into whataboutism because they've been critics of the US for so many years they've forgotten about Russia, even stood by Russia because they oppose the US. Epistemic responsibility works in every direction. — Christoffer

The following is the text of the U.S.-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership signed by U.S. Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba in Washington, D.C. on November 10, 2021.

Emphasize unwavering commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, including Crimea and extending to its territorial waters in the face of ongoing Russian aggression, which threatens regional peace and stability and undermines the global rules-based order.

The United States and Ukraine intend to continue a range of substantive measures to prevent external direct and hybrid aggression against Ukraine and hold Russia accountable for such aggression and violations of international law, including the seizure and attempted annexation of Crimea and the Russia-led armed conflict in parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine, as well as its continuing malign behavior.

The United States does not and will never recognize Russia’s attempted annexation of Crimea and reaffirms its full support for international efforts, including in the Normandy Format, aimed at negotiating a diplomatic resolution to the Russia-led armed conflict in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine on the basis of respect for international law, including the UN Charter.

The United States intends to support Ukraine’s efforts to counter armed aggression, economic and energy disruptions, and malicious cyber activity by Russia, including by maintaining sanctions against or related to Russia and applying other relevant measures until restoration of the territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders.

In continuing to be annoying on this thread, I have to disagree and make a correction: — ssu

Ok, let's make it super clear. The conclusion is originally more: "Teaching critical thinking is needed to help people see past authoritarian propaganda." So, dividing them into two inductive arguments: — Christoffer

Is “democracy” really America’s cause? Is “autocracy” really America’s great adversary in the battle for the future?

Not all autocrats, after all, are our enemies, nor are all democrats our reliable friends.

This authoritarian mindset is an unavoidable consequence of the American education system. Indeed, while so-called education reformers insist on more tests, pushing schools to emulate the Chinese, Japanese, and South Korean educational systems, they miss a big piece of the puzzle: educators in those countries consider their systems a failure. Despite performing better than American children on certain international standardized tests, Chinese educators have noted that Chinese students have also demonstrated a “lack of social and practical skills, absence of self-discipline and imagination, loss of curiosity and passion for learning.”

Just look how nicely the Presidents of Russia and Finland (the one that looked like Conan O'Brien) — ssu