which are ^^ ? — Hamtatro

To live with the expectation that one does not demand from life what one wishes but the situation and fortune he or she have been given, and make the best out of it.

Rudolf Carnap defends the realist view of abstract objects in his Empiricism, Semantics, and Ontology. — quine

On what grounds does he do this without evoking metaphysics? Did anyone ever get around to doing that? I know Russel and Whitehead tried really hard, yet Godel disproved them in one blow, well actually two blows.

If anyone ever follows my threads I believe the only way to prove or disprove this is via confirming that reality can be simulated to a certain degree in a sufficiently complex computing machine. The Church-Turing-Deutsch Principle provides a very elegant view on supporting this in that if something within a set contains the elements of the set then that set can be replicated in a smaller degree within that set itself. However, we don't know if there is a larger set than the set we occupy, and there really doesn't seem to be any way of knowing that for sure; but, then the fact that the same set can be replicated within the same set but to a smaller degree would seemingly point that it's possible.

Those self eating snakes, barbers, and Pinocchio's always got me. The saying goes that Godel was allowed to eat his cake and have it too in heaven with Plato.

I have a decent memory. So what I do is read my memories. I'm too lazy to read books. If only I had photographic or eidetic memory I could read my memories, like a machine.

The only thing "wrong" with depression, is that in many of it's forms, it's temporary, ameliorable or curable as is highly evident by numerous (if not most) cases in which it manifests. — Maw

This is not the heart of the issue. The issue is that the individual rebels from the demands of society because he or she (more often males, though feminism is an expression of this rebellion against male privileged ones, which I agree with) feels that something is not right, deep down. Perhaps people with depression are more empathetic or sensitive(defense mechanism?) to the workings of a world that is deterministic or non-deterministic or without objective truths, whereas psychopathic traits seem to be valued and even encouraged in society (reason without emotion is quite literally psychopathy). However, the depression itself is a manifestation for the yearning for objective truth, which sometimes in its deepest forms is seen in the affirmation of death through suicide and that act is objective and clear.

Anyway, the heart of the issue; society is to blame for being depressed, not the individual.

Well i do take drugs time to time and it is because i want to feel good for a period of time (party) , it is not different than anything else that is pleasurable, you do it because it leads to a feeling of pleasure — Hamtatro

Don't do that. Mind altering substances only distort life from the real important things in it.

It depends what you mean, if i like to cook it is my pleasure to do so and it is not physical, but at the end it is the same thing which happen in my brain as if I was having sex, which is physical. — Hamtatro

Well, I had a thread about peoples obsession with sex. Thing is people never be satisfied with it. Schopenhauer would agree. Cioran would say its a waste of time as sadness is the only real thing in life.

Kinda like that rat in a cage?

Some Cioran:

It is not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late.
Man starts over again everyday, in spite of all he knows, against all he knows.

I wouldn't want to have sex while I was writing this post. It would just be distracting and hinder me from doing what was important. Most of our lives are defined by avoiding various actions which would bring pleasure because we have more important things to do. — TheWillowOfDarkness

I like doing philosophy if you know what I mean, haha.

Yes, for the most part.

There can be pleasure derived from spiritual practice though. Though, I think if you look at it closely it all comes down to physical pleasure,

We can look at the pessimists, existentialists, the Stoics; heck, even Epicureans, and they were hedonists. — Chany

Stoics have had nothing to say about pleasure. However, I think every religion and most ethical theories have concluded that endless pleasure or the pursuit of pleasure for pleasures sake is misleading to the path of happiness.

As a part Buddhist I think desires originating from the desire for pleasure are a false loop as Buddhism describes.

Ask any drug addict.

Let us sing about depression. I'm just to depressed to start.

I think unenlightened secretly rules here. His disapproval is heart numbing.

I would say that most professionals aren't capable of psychotherapy in most cases and arent even equipped with the expertise in the area. They'll offer comfort and acceptance and no judgments but at the end of the day you're still going to have to take your SSRI's.

I think, personal initiative is of greater importance here, and not everyone understands the gravity of the situation at the time, thinking the SSRI's will do the job for them. And, a little more, it's not the depression that kills but the negative thoughts and feelings that arise from it. It's a slow and painful killer.

You clearly don't kow anything about depression — Hamtatro

Well, that's not really true. I have a fairly good idea of what depression is. It is true, at the deepest of my sorrows I had no motivation to get out of bed and just wanted to lay there and sleep as much as possible.

It's quite sad.

What I have to say about this is you are basically saying what is already known. — Grey

Well it isn't known to people who 'suffer' from depression. They seem to have a negative thought loop that it something that should be fought with and immediately be 'done' with to lead a happy life, as if a happy life can't be had with depression, which it can.

Self-acceptance is a very important concept here that I see rarely mentioned. As the name implies, it comes from the self and has to be fostered by yourself. There are only a few people who will remind you of it and one has to cherish them and their support.

Depression isn't the enemy, fighting it is. — Grey

Kudos for saying that. The whole point of the thread in one sentence, although needed some elaboration.

A follow up on my OP:

Despite depression being a natural thing, we live in a society, and society mandates that we be productive citizens. One cannot live without money or even for the matter consider it. If I had the option to go on benefits for depression, I still would rather not, as this would only leave me in a state of apathy that is a breeding ground for negative and destructive emotions. Hence, depression must be treated; but, acceptance of the fact that one is depressed will pave the road to recovery.

10 min in, can't get enough.

Hey rossii,

I can give you some advice in terms of how I dealt with it; but, don't take it as some Truth.

When I first started working I had a hard time adjusting to being active and quick on my feet and exerting effort for prolonged periods of time. At the time it got so bad I was rethinking that maybe suicide is an option for useless people like me. However, and I think this is the fundamental thing, I didn't give up, and as the time passed by and more time was spent at work things got easier and easier and have actually become very easy to deal with.

So, don't give up, keep at it, take whatever medication helps (it did in my case, due to the fact that depression comes and goes where medication will keep you at a baseline to prevent any ups and downs). And despite feeling like shit, try and find a job, even a part time one. The new environment and stimulating atmosphere will do tons of help.

I also plan to start meditation again, it really seems like a good thing to do.

You can go a little deeper and ask if the wavefunction is real and if so does that commit us to platonism.

And no I dont eat at KFC. I like to go to Subway on my lunch breaks.

Yes, I was too passionate about the issue. Happens.

Oh please, I'm not made of snow, guys. I never took offence to any of TimeLine's posts.

I'm sorry; but, your whole post is an appeal to authority. If the economics say that 1 MW of power from geothermal is cheaper than 1 MW from either (solar, gas, coal, nuclear, wind, hydro, and the rest) then 1 MW of power from geothermal is cheaper than the rest of the alternatives provided.

So, I corresponded with one of the moderators and they want me to 'change' to get unbaned as I was informed this was a permanent ban. To what, I have yet to be informed. I think I might go for it and see if I can change some more given that they are willing to let me have a second chance. Hope I'm not getting too old.

So, I've been reading that text and have a hard time coming to any conclusion... Something about it smells of mysticism.

Danke!

Yes, I agree. The details of that study as to what sources were exactly utilized are unclear and ambiguous. However, the ambiguity should not be a reason to discredit and wave away the findings of that study, which are supported elsewhere. This seems to be the case as to what happened in that thread.

Furthermore, no answer was provided as to why given the much higher LCOE of wind and solar, and being so heavily funded and subsidized, which are by themselves inferior to geothermal due to being non dispatch-able sources of energy...

I guess, I posted an economic question to the wrong forum.

Bums can't lose any more than what they have lost already. They win by default.

I'm a night type, so when the hour passes around 7 is when my intellectual capacity turns on. I'll give it a thorough read then. In the meantime here is some evidence of my interest in Wittgenstein:

http://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/560/wittgenstein-reading-group-for-the-experienced

I didn't read enough of your thread to see how far you went in your insistence that geothermal energy was an easy, viable source, but you were certainly treading on dangerous territory as soon as you started to reject the detailed, factual reasons you were given for why it would not work. — andrewk

Did you see my post on the LCOE of geothermal energy? I think I disproved the claims made by the professionals on geothermal being inefficient in that thread.

Comparative analysis of lifetime costs of Geothermal vs other sources of energy.

*edit: LCOE includes capital costs also.

Still trying to read through it. Forgive my slowness.

The fly got out of the bottle and the ladder was thrown away after stepping above it! How Wittgenstein must have felt the need to talk to this person.

And yet, when you read those remarks on Frazer that Nils Loc posted, what comes across is a lively kind of fellow-feeling--a sympathy for human beings and a passionate defence of their practices, rather than any anguished estrangement from people. And reading just a page or so of it reminds you why the thought of philosophers interests us so much more than their lives. — jamalrob

Yes, he dearly loved David Pinsent. After he died he dedicated his Tractatus to him. Truly an act of a wonderful person.

It seems Wittgenstein succeeded where his siblings didn't.

It's a cultural thing. When the British ended their involvement with slavery in the Caribbean, it was with the assumption that free people will work harder than slaves. But the newly freed slaves found that they could spend 30 minutes a day growing pumpkins and get along fine. Certain British parties were outraged at the "pumpkin eaters" and suggested that they should be re-enslaved for their own good. You're sounding pretty close to what's called the Protestant work ethic. — Mongrel

You can take this to the extreme although thankfully we don't get those nut jobs around here, that blacks were 'inferior' to white's once upon a time due to their lifestyle and way of life. Ahough... you can see that pot being stirred today in regards to 'Muslims'.

I get that you don't actually twiddle your thumbs, but consistent with what you said, you would find the 25 year old thumb twiddler who is cared for by mommy no better or worse than an actual productive member of society. — Hanover

You got it all the wrong way. The mother now depends on the son, given her age. There are unmet expectations being babbled away here from my mouth or fingers.

I could offer the platitude "to each his own," but I don't think that. In fact, the only reason society continues to function is because there are few enough of you and the system is large enough to absorb you. And this is not a conservative rant. I don't care if your incentive is a bigger house or because you feel yourself an integral part of the commune. No society, East to West, welcomes the loafer. — Hanover

Before you go off the wall, I'm not on welfare or benefits. I make my own small contributions at my local job. I don't know what your expectations or strict rigora are for an 'ideal citizen' but it ain't happening here. Besides, there is no such thing as 'society', eh?

It's a bad thing if you have bad judgement; that's my judgement anyway. — unenlightened

It's a bad thing to judge, m'kay?

Well, here I must ask for your apology as I certainly either lacked cultural relativism or at the very least was haughty enough to assume that you were from a western culture, perhaps the latter a good thing in that you are able to articulate yourself rather well enough for the above-mentioned to escape my original assessment. — TimeLine

That's quite an argument to make that one must be from another culture to see things differently. I have lived in Europe for about 8 years and grant that experience as some sort of foundation where this thread is build on. But, if you want to really catch my drift, I have found that people who stay together are actually happier together contrary to the beliefs implicitly presented here.

I also said that your position could even be enviable - I love to garden and have many various roses and flowers that I cultivate as well as fruits and herbs - but it does not change the fact that Candide had to go through a substantial amount of absurdity to realise the point of having a garden. — TimeLine

Yea, that's the opportunity cost you forgo when living alone as opposed to with someone, who can help share the expenses.

Why, exactly, can you not take care of your mother and live on your own? If you had ambition, if you wanted to make something of yourself, why can you not fulfil your dreams and help her at the same time? — TimeLine

That was my original attempt with trying to integrate into society (through joining the military). In that process, which might seem strange harsh but one that I would desire for any of my offspring I found where I stand relative to most of my peers in society. I'm not a guy that likes being controlled or put into controlled settings, that stuff sets me off.

It is your dependence and ultimately that can weaken you in the long-term. — TimeLine

I would actually argue otherwise that my mother is dependent more on me emotionally; but, I don't want to overpsychologize the matter.

There is no justification for shirking away from the world and to say you will happily do so is no different to someone who witnessed a crime and instead pretended that they never saw anything. You are afraid to live and that means you do not love life. If you did, if you really understand how magnificent it actually is, you would fight against injustice, you would be passionate, you will take risks because you will not shrivel at the face of the ignorant but come face to face with it until they shrivel. — TimeLine

I appreciate your compassion on the matter and as a Stoic (moreso than a Buddhist as being a Buddhist in the West is very hard to adjust to) I am trying to always be more compassionate. That's not an easy task and I envy those who can be compassionate just for the virtue of being compassionate.

I am all for people sharing their personal stories and please do not assume I am attacking you. If you see what I say, if you don't, there is not much I can do. But I believe you are highly intelligent and the world - the world you understand to be wrong - needs people like you to take responsibility so that if you are as you say here: — TimeLine

Not at all, the worst judgement has already been passed, which was inevitable by a certain member and I know that in some minds I might appear as pathetic or a loser; but, that has yet to bother me in any way.

That would have been close to the ultimate humiliation. — Bitter Crank

Tell me, where did this source of neuroticism, which I might very well be displaying, originate from? [A]ndrewk provided a partial answer; but, I am interested in your input on the matter. Surely, this goes back all the way to the Bible. But, what about the parable of the prodigal son?

Wittgenstein lived, wrote an essay, left some notes, and died. — StreetlightX

But what a life!