Im thinking of any kind of pills, including supplements, those herbal ones like Valerian, etc. Anything you have to swallow

Waiting around is not a healthy fix, because you don't know whether your depression will more naturally subside. You have to be treated in some facet in order to change the makeup of your brain, and specifically "pills" do this best.

Mmm, I dunno about that. The whole point of the clinically depressed requiring medication is because they are not able to change their behaviors and thoughts. — Heister Eggcart

Well, depression isn't treated nowadays by people who you seem to portray as completely incapable of taking care of themselves, by locking them up in an asylum or another such manner. Yes, this is in large part due to prescribing the appropriate medication to those who need it most. However, full remission from depression or other mental disorder is, I think, not that prevalent among people who treat depression with medication alone. The efficacy of treating depression with medication and therapy is much much higher, and more often than not remission is achieved.

Waiting around is not a healthy fix, because you don't know whether your depression will more naturally subside. You have to be treated in some facet in order to change the makeup of your brain, and specifically "pills" do this best. — Heister Eggcart

I didn't say waiting around is what one should do. But there are other non-pharmaceutical treatments. And by the way - non-pharmaceutical treatments DO change the makeup of your brain via neuroplasticity.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/21/mindfulness-based-cognitive-therapy-treatment-chronic-depression-antidepressants

MBCT is a development from both CBT and MBSR mixed together, which has shown quite effective in combatting depression.

Ok so I tried to do something about my feelings, after consulting my psychiatrist, I stopped taking medication I was prescribed after assessing that it didn’t help and he suggested that I should try different one plus I visit my psychologist every week. I’m now four weeks on no medication, going to see my psychiatrist next week.
Past month was again, one week feeling well, next week feeling like shit, obsessed with suicidal thoughts. Days i feel the worst are the ones that my head tries to resolve my internal conflict - i want to live and enjoy many things, but this feeling is constantly opposed in my head with philosophical pessimism (how can you enjoy life when it is hell? etc.)
Is it depression thats causing suicidal thoughts or I just can’t cope with living?
Or is it just really depression and treating depression right way will make me feel better?
Since it’s been over 2 year of feeling this way, I really don’t know if it can really get better.

Hey rossii,

I can give you some advice in terms of how I dealt with it; but, don't take it as some Truth.

When I first started working I had a hard time adjusting to being active and quick on my feet and exerting effort for prolonged periods of time. At the time it got so bad I was rethinking that maybe suicide is an option for useless people like me. However, and I think this is the fundamental thing, I didn't give up, and as the time passed by and more time was spent at work things got easier and easier and have actually become very easy to deal with.

So, don't give up, keep at it, take whatever medication helps (it did in my case, due to the fact that depression comes and goes where medication will keep you at a baseline to prevent any ups and downs). And despite feeling like shit, try and find a job, even a part time one. The new environment and stimulating atmosphere will do tons of help.

I also plan to start meditation again, it really seems like a good thing to do.

It's hard to diagnose any sort of mental illness anyway, much more so through what limited amount we are able to share via a text-message board. So it's probably best for me to say "I do not know the cause of your feelings"

In the case that this is depression...

Chronic pain gets better, but it doesn't really go away. There are habits and activities you can establish in your life to make it feel better, but even with said habits established you have good days and bad days. And if you fall out of those habits then you'll have worse days. And it may take a long time to figure out which habits work best.

A follow up on my OP:

Despite depression being a natural thing, we live in a society, and society mandates that we be productive citizens. One cannot live without money or even for the matter consider it. If I had the option to go on benefits for depression, I still would rather not, as this would only leave me in a state of apathy that is a breeding ground for negative and destructive emotions. Hence, depression must be treated; but, acceptance of the fact that one is depressed will pave the road to recovery.

I have dealt with depression before and have gotten out of a deep depression that lasted over 7 years. What I have to say about this is you are basically saying what is already known. Most cases of depression are things that need to be understood to be dealt with. You have to understand there is a problem before you can fix it. Accepting depression is basically a way of understanding it. Not running away from the emotions and instead analyzing them is you can come to understand what the cause of your depression is and therefore fixing it.


I have a personality disorder so when I did have to go to a psychologist to help me with my depression but he simply gave me knowledge I didn't know. I didn't know I had a personality disorder and he is the one who brought it up and made my PD clear. The knowledge of my PD and affects of it on myself is what helped me with my depression. It didn't cure me of depression because, like you said, it's a natural state. It can only be suppressed or managed. I have learned to manage it well.


What I will say is this. You shouldn't fight depression. Human emotions are something that should be valued equally. Depression may not feel well but trying to fight your feelings will feel even worse. Going out of your way to not experience sadness or pain will only make sadness and pain that much worse. You should openly and freely accept all emotions that come your way. Depression can affect us on a physical level and it's important to know why you feel the way you do. Take time to relax and learn to think deeply about yourself and your feelings. It may not "cure" you but it will help you immensely. Depression isn't the enemy, fighting it is.

What I have to say about this is you are basically saying what is already known. — Grey

Well it isn't known to people who 'suffer' from depression. They seem to have a negative thought loop that it something that should be fought with and immediately be 'done' with to lead a happy life, as if a happy life can't be had with depression, which it can.

Self-acceptance is a very important concept here that I see rarely mentioned. As the name implies, it comes from the self and has to be fostered by yourself. There are only a few people who will remind you of it and one has to cherish them and their support.

Depression isn't the enemy, fighting it is. — Grey

Kudos for saying that. The whole point of the thread in one sentence, although needed some elaboration.

You clearly don't kow anything about depression, you don't embrace a sad life because the only goal of a human life is to be happy, if some people choose suicide its because they think that their overall life is going to be sad, depression isnt something real when it is not also paired with a negative view of your future, you are not depressed when you are just "sad", i don't feel depressed when i am lonely for two days however if all my friends and familly would die i don't think that i could embrace the depression. At best you could say that people should try to treat their depressions which is nothing to say but useless.
Not everyone can treat his depression because to do so you need to have a positive view of your life, some people however are completly right in their depression because their life objectively sucks.
As simple as that.

You clearly don't kow anything about depression — Hamtatro

Well, that's not really true. I have a fairly good idea of what depression is. It is true, at the deepest of my sorrows I had no motivation to get out of bed and just wanted to lay there and sleep as much as possible.

It's quite sad.

Yet you find your life so good that you still want to live it and embrace your pain that is only a part of an overall happy life, so you are not depressive anymore, would you say that if you were depressive currently ? No because when you are depressive ... you are depressive

Ah yeah, I meant known by professionals, if you go to a psychologist saying you're struggling with depression they walk you through the steps of understanding it and one of those steps is acceptance. I guess I should have specified the non-layperson understanding.

you don't embrace a sad life because the only goal of a human life is to be happy — Hamtatro

That's not true and that ideology is a cause of depression and the reason people can become suicidal.

if some people choose suicide its because they think that their overall life is going to be sad — Hamtatro

That's also not true. People choose suicide for many different reasons not just because they think their life will be sad. It's a lot more complex, suicide doesn't come from sadness it comes from pain. Pain which manifests in many forms. Trivializing suicide to, "just being sad" is an insult to people with suicidal tenancies.

Embracing sadness and depression doesn't mean living your life sad and depressed. If you accept sadness and depression and let the emotions do their job then you wont feel that way permanently. It's a matter of understanding feelings vs. fighting them. That concept isn't outlandish and is put into practice in counseling offices everywhere.

I would say that most professionals aren't capable of psychotherapy in most cases and arent even equipped with the expertise in the area. They'll offer comfort and acceptance and no judgments but at the end of the day you're still going to have to take your SSRI's.

I think, personal initiative is of greater importance here, and not everyone understands the gravity of the situation at the time, thinking the SSRI's will do the job for them. And, a little more, it's not the depression that kills but the negative thoughts and feelings that arise from it. It's a slow and painful killer.

And, a little more, it's not the depression that kills but the negative thoughts and feelings that arise from it — Question

Then what is depression if it is not "negative thoughts and feelings" ?

That's not true and that ideology is a cause of depression and the reason people can become suicidal. — Grey

Give me a single, just a single thing that someone could do that is not in the purpose of trying to be more happy during his overall existence. And then tell me what is the purpose of your life if it is not, at the end, to be satisfied by it, to be happy.
Even someone that stay alive and suffer just because he is religious is just trying to maximise his happines on the long term.

People choose suicide for many different reasons not just because they think their life will be sad — Grey

At the end they prefer to die instead of living because there is something that makes them sad that they know or think will not change in the future. Give me please an example of someone who decided to die because of something he don't give a f*, or something sad but the person thinks it will change in a positive way in the future ? It doesnt make sense, at all . And don't tell me about terrorism or religion, it is not the subject, and they anyway just try to maximise their overall happiness.

Embracing sadness and depression doesn't mean living your life sad and depressed. If you accept sadness and depression and let the emotions do their job then you wont feel that way permanently. — Grey

It is really full of positivity, but it is not true, if i let the memotions do their job I will just be depressed as it is the emotion i feel, what you mean instead is fighting depression (to accept the reallity that makes me sad) which have nothing to do with embracing it, you just change the way you feel the reallity but you don't embrace your feelings, you change them.
You can embrace anything in life as far as it lets you satified of it, but you can't embrace sadness and depression because by definition if you are satified of it then you are not depressed anymore.

but why go on living? what is the rational reason? I just don't see one. Why isn't suicide rational response? If life is full of suffering why continue? I am afraid I won't escape these feelings of anxiety, panic, depression abd suicidal ideation. I don't see what could happen for it to change. The proble is life, not the problems in it. My mind somehow isn't capable of accepting statements that philosophical pessimism offers.

Life is worth living because all life has meaning.

My mind somehow isn't capable of accepting statements that philosophical pessimism offers. — rossii

If it helps, I struggle with this all the time. Our personalities are not of our own creation - they are socially influenced and thus the optimistic and affirmative morality of society literally bleeds into our psyche.

Wouldn't it be great if the pessimists were wrong? Wouldn't it be just fantastic if everything they said could be explained away by some flawless and satisfying reason? It seems like the existence of pessimism is itself an argument for pessimism...

The unfortunate thing is that pessimism is difficult to fully understand if you've been lucky enough to avoid some serious misfortune or have a flexible mind that allows you to ignore these memories. Another issue is how we seem prone to forgetting all the bad that has happened, downplaying negative possibilities. It's only when life starts to get rough again that you're confronted with the obnoxious and harmful nature of life and move from being sedated to being sober.

For me, at least, it's actually easier to stay in a melancholic mood than to go through radical mood changes. If I am correct, then the anxiety you feel when faced with things like suffering and death and suicide is the result of you bouncing back from an optimistic "high". It's exactly this sudden and overwhelming sense of dread that characterizes disillusionment.

But no, I don't think there is a rational reason to continue living. I think a lot of people on their death beds would not choose to re-live their lives, nor would I think unborn fetuses (if they were capable of doing so) would consent to beginning life if they saw what it entailed. But just because life is probably not worth living doesn't mean suicide is automatically the solution. If avoiding suffering is what you're after, then suicide is actually probably not the best course of action, since suicide has a tendency to fail and cause a hell of a lot of suffering. So you're stuck in a sort of penitentiary. Once life has started, it's hard to stop and you might as well just go along with the flow.

I'm also of the opinion that there's some legitimately interesting and ironic experiences to enjoy while surviving. If there's anything advantageous to being alive, it's that bitter irony and occasional sense of beauty and satisfaction that helps build an aesthetic of a life.

I am afraid I won't escape these feelings of anxiety, panic, depression abd suicidal ideation. — rossii

Like I said before, you're still in the affirmative mind-set. You need to let go of the idea that death and suffering are un-natural and contingent. As soon as you stop clenching on to life so hard, it gets a helluva lot easier and fun. Like Nietzsche said, the possibility of suicide helps comfort those in dark times. I think those who make a "pact" to themselves to never commit suicide are those who aren't emotionally mature enough to trust in their perceptions of their own well-being. If you always keep suicide in the back of your mind, and meditate on it daily, it becomes a sort of symbol of our predicament and can help ground your expectations and comprehension of the world.

For example, I find it funny when Tough Guys hyped up on testosterone try to pretend like they're King of the World and that they can do anything they want. They might be able to do a lot of comparatively-impressive things, but they probably can't kill themselves. Ha!

but why go on living? what is the rational reason? I just don't see one. — rossii

Fuck it man, what's the reason not to go on living? What's the reason to quit life? Living is your default state. You need a reason to change something. You don't need a reason to leave things as they are. There's no "why" to going on living. You go on living because you are alive, simple. That's not a reason for it, simply how things are.

Life isnt rational, if you like it take it if you don't then pass, why live if you suffer from it more than you enjoy.
Don't try to make sense of your life, just do the things that makes you happy, you seems to be a curious person but you won't have any anwers to your questions if you are dead, enjoy what is enjoyable :)

Yet you find your life so good that you still want to live it — Hamtatro

Firstly, depressed and/or suicidal individuals often keep on living precisely because of their illness - their depression becomes what sustains them, not so much what occurs, as Question alluded to, outside of the bed, or the shower, or the house. In other words, some depressed people live to be depressed, not to live a life of love...not that such people choose that "lifestyle."

Secondly, and speaking for myself, I wouldn't say that I've either embraced depression or judged that life is so good that I still want to live in it. I've merely judged that to not be would be worse than to still be, that leaving behind my family would be a grave, grave mistake, more worse than any of the pains I am facing now in life. Were I truly alone in this world, perhaps I'd find that I would have nothing then to live for, either depression or love, now gone.

I might also add that depression's lethargy can actually be a blessing of sorts, seeing as the apathy that comes from one's woes can coincidentally make the thought of suicide be as pointless as going to school, or getting up for work. So, in this sense, the unintended and unwanted mental and physical laziness and inability to act works in some people's favor, as it lessens the likelihood of them finding the will power to jump in front of a bus or pull the trigger or to cut themselves.

Firstly, depressed and/or suicidal individuals often keep on living precisely because of their illness - their depression becomes what sustains them, not so much what occurs, as Question alluded to, outside of the bed, or the shower, or the house. In other words, some depressed people live to be depressed, not to live a life of love...not that such people choose that "lifestyle." — Heister Eggcart

This sounds much like the slave who, when his master decides to free him, cannot bear to be freed, and begs for the chains not to be taken off :P

Personally, I've suffered of depression, and the one thing it taught me was that there's not much to gain out of life, it's a zero sum game. All that really matters is whether you are a moral and loving person, there's nothing "big" you can get out of it. Careers, money, girlfriends, etc. nothing is of real importance ultimately. So nowadays, I wouldn't even think of attending something like a party for example. Many young people are obsessed about partying, as if that would make their life better somehow - or it would make life worth living. I don't buy that shit - life is worth living in and of itself, it doesn't require any particular thing. So I'm skeptical about "cure all" solutions. The human condition doesn't have a cure, because it doesn't need one. Once you become satisfied with the idea that you can't gain anything out of life, and therefore neither can you lose, you are finally free... you are just left to fill your time until you die with whatever you think is good and important.

there's not much to gain out of life — Agustino

there's nothing "big" you can get out of it. — Agustino

nothing is of real importance ultimately. — Agustino

life is worth living in and of itself, it doesn't require any particular thing — Agustino

So I'm skeptical about "cure all" solutions. — Agustino

The human condition doesn't have a cure, because it doesn't need one. — Agustino

Once you become satisfied with the idea that you can't gain anything out of life, and therefore neither can you lose, you are finally free — Agustino

suicidal individuals often keep on living precisely because of their illness — Heister Eggcart

basically you are telling me that they live because they are too lazy to kill
themselves ? ^^

Secondly, and speaking for myself, I wouldn't say that I've either embraced depression or judged that life is so good that I still want to live in it — Heister Eggcart

I've merely judged that to not be would be worse than to still be — Heister Eggcart

So you judged that your life worth more (or "is so good that" depending on the level of fun that I want to put in my words .. ) than "nothing". It is exactly what i wanted to tell you. If you were suffering more than you enjoy your life (no familly for example etc..) then it would be smarter from you to chose death.

In other words, some depressed people live to be depressed — Heister Eggcart

What does it mean ? They live depressed because they like it ? They live depressed because they either fear death or thinks it is better to live than nothing, it is not always true however, "nothing" is not always worste than "bad", and in such a case we speak about a real nothing that doesnt product boredom or regrets which make it really interesting.

Like I said before the final goal of any human is to satisfy his needs, which lead to happines, no one continue living if he have the choice in a case where there is more overall suffering than happiness (in his mind).
You judged that "nothing", right or wrong, is worst than life, so in your mind your overall better amount of satisfaction is in life not deah, your case does not contradict my assertion at all.

So nowadays, I wouldn't even think of attending something like a party for example. Many young people are obsessed about partying, as if that would make their life better somehow — Agustino

And ....

you are just left to fill your time until you die with whatever you think is good and important. — Agustino

So, your whole post doesnt make any sense haha, I don't think that life is worth anything however I still enjoy what is enjoyable

Young people, which I'm a part of, enjoy partying, traveling, girlfriends, meet great, rare and interesting people during their lives. And you know what ? Even having interesting conversation an a random forum somewhere on the web :)

basically you are telling me that they live because they are too lazy to kill
themselves ? ^^ — Hamtatro

Sort of, but not everyone. You're oversimplifying.

So you judged that your life worth more (or "is so good that" depending on the level of fun that I want to put in my words .. ) than "nothing". It is exactly what i wanted to tell you. If you were suffering more than you enjoy your life (no familly for example etc..) then it would be smarter from you to chose death. — Hamtatro

What? No. Life is majority suffering. But merely because this is the case does not mean I must kill myself. I only said that it might not matter were therenothing but suffering in my life, with there being a total absence of love.

What does it mean ? They live depressed because they like it ? — Hamtatro

No. The only meaningful thing in their life becomes, oxymoronically, their depression.

Like I said before the final goal of any human is to satisfy his needs, which lead to happines, no one continue living if he have the choice in a case where there is more overall suffering than happiness (in his mind). — Hamtatro

But I don't think life is ever more "happy" than it does suffer.

Let us sing about depression. I'm just to depressed to start.

Mongolian throat chanting?