You’re essentially saying that you can control people by lying to them. That has nothing to do with the integrity of the press. Indeed, Trump is suing CNN because they frequently reported on his lies, particularly his Big Lie.

Shouldn’t news networks be allowed the freedom that you have?
— praxis

Absolutely. But... are they really free? — javi2541997

So far you have neglected to explain how they are not free. You claim that politicians control newspapers and journalists but fail to explain how they control them. Is it by bribery or blackmail? Do gangs of armed thugs force them to do whatever politicians want? You also mention “ghost writers” who work for “powerful groups”. This is all meaningless without facts or anything substantive to support your claims.

If a news outlets wants to hire ghost writers they are free to do so. I’m not aware of any laws against hiring ghost writers. Ghost writers can also be easily fired, unless they have a strong union or something.

So you don’t know who they are or how they control the news and yet have no problem with defaming Breitbart on a public forum. Shouldn’t news networks be allowed the freedom that you have?

Anyway, getting back to the topic, I think that @introbert may have been attempting to introduce the concept of presentism to the issue, thought better of it, and then wisely chose to abandon the discussion. Presentism is the uncritical adherence to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts.

Back in the day slavery and genocide were a-okay, or so say the anti-presentists. Everyone was doing it, and doing it was legal. It wasn't a-okay with those enslaved or in the process of being slaughtered, of course, and in fact we modern folk still value freedom and life. Imagine that, after two hundred years of progress and change, people still value freedom and life. The more things change the more they stay the same, it seems, doesn't it?

hooker costume — Merkwurdichliebe

Where do you live where streetwalkers can afford an outfit like that?

If you control the press then it’s no longer free though, right?
— praxis

Exactly and both political parties are guilty. — javi2541997

Maybe an example will help clarify what we are each trying to convey. Are you familiar with the Breitbart News Network? It's an American far-right syndicated news, opinion, and commentary website. You seem to be suggesting that a far-right party controls Breitbart. Who would that be exactly and how do they enforce their control?

If you control the press then it’s no longer free though, right?

If it’s serving then why is Trump grumpy about it?

Wait, what? Trump was defeated? I thought he “lost” because of voter fraud.

So the press should be firmly regulated by the government? :grimace:

Trump sues CNN for saying mean things about him.

I guess mere words matter after all, aye @NOS4A2 ? :lol:

I don't know you well enough to say something that might be understandable to you… — introbert

I’m fluent in English, if that’s helpful for you to know about me.

What most interests me is the part where you touch on “only now being looked at in a negative light”. What’s that about? Can you please elucidate on that?

the possession of artifacts held by colonial powers of colonized peoples are only now being looked at in a negative light — introbert

Your meaning is not clear. Could you please rephrase this for added clarity?

I think the topic here is over thought.

It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. — Deus

It's hard enough to take this seriously without half-baked jokes being thrown into the mix.

What is her art? She is a musician right? Does she always make music about such a topic? Is she particularly political? — I like sushi

I gave my impression of her as a performer or brand, if you will.

When Trump sells James Madison's crystal flute after the next American civil war, Lizzo's playing of the flute will have added to its selling value. — Nils Loc

That's a good point. Rather than defiling the object as some claim, Lizzo actually raised its value, and I would guess that it also, by design, raised awareness of treasures that the Library of Congress holds. How many Americans knew that there are crystal flutes, much less that Jimmyboy owned one and it could be seen at the Library of Congress? Few, I think.

I am not quite sure why I should care at all about this? — I like sushi

I think the question is what Lizzo's art stands for versus what the art of the crystal flute stands for.

I think it's undeniable that Lizzo's art stands for the empowerment of the marginalized, to some degree at least. She's a large woman, for instance, and unabashedly celebrates her shape. In some sense she is asking us to see beauty where we typically do not. That's what worthwhile art does.

The flute was made by Claude Laurent, a Parisian watchmaker and mechanic, in honor of Madison’s second inauguration. Apparently, the crystal flute is a novelty item and Lizzo is the first to have played the instrument so it's not revered for its performance quality.

I suppose the flute most distinctively stands for, by mere association/ownership, a particular founding father of the nation, James Madison. What does Madison stand for? Certainly not wokeness. Does that mean that the flute stands for anti-wokeness? It does, because people like Ben Crocker and Ben Shapiro are essentially saying that it does and those who are oblivious may follow their lead. It is their choice to claim what the flute stands for.

That’s weird.

He's actually alright. — Baden

:scream:

A website where Jordan Peterson is featured. :snicker:

A hyperactive DMN (default mode network) is not conducive to well-being, I think, and the simple solution is to engage in activities that deactivate the DMN, such as meditation, long walks on the beach, dropping acid, or whatever. It helps to relax.

And to be clear, I think a ritual may necessarily be social in nature.
– praxis

Not necessarily. Seppuku was a samurai ritual used when someone committed a big act of dishonour or disrespect. The act itself was accomplished in the pure loneliness. Most of the people found out what happened whenever they discovered the corpse. — javi2541997

In order to be non-social wouldn't a ritual need to be unique and developed by an individual and have no connection to others? Assuming that rituals help to strengthen social bonds, values, norms, and the like, what would the point of a personal ritual be?

Can’t someone just go through the motions of a ritual and another participant, in the same ritual, have a deeply meaningful experience?

And to be clear, I think a ritual may necessarily be social in nature.

I am a bit suspicious of calling every social interaction a ‘ritual’ for the reason I mentioned above (ie. Viewing everything as ‘Art’). I think that is just a lens we can use whereas a ‘ritual’ is not really about viewing the world. — I like sushi

I don’t think that you can get away with dispensing the lens view simply because a ritual may be deeply meaningful to one participant and completely meaningless to another participant. Maybe that’s what distinguishes a ritual from a shared activity, the depth of meaning it invokes.

If there are social services that can adequately take care of this man I don’t imagine it would take a lot of time to connect with them, but perhaps for some reason it does.

I mentioned Cheerio Ellen Boxes without any reference to sexual orientation, but to looks only. — Eros1982

Ellen is what some gay people look like. Is that not okay with Eros?

power and money are dominating politics. — Eros1982

Funny how that works!

Gay couples have never reproduced so we can make no change in the birthrate. — Bitter Crank

He didn’t think that through so well, as appears to frequently be the case.

Maybe Eros1982 holds the leftist view that sexuality IS constructed (rather than an essential feature), so that models produce whatever result that comes about -- male/female/gay/straight... — Bitter Crank

Eros keeps prattling on about norms and tradition, and that reveals a conservative nature, so either he/she is woefully ignorant or is trying to deceive and failing miserably.

no kid knows if Ellen is a gay or not..... but they can really get confused with a picture of Ellen looking like a boy and dressing like a man.

The more such pics they see every morning (when they eat their cereals), the more acceptable to them. — Eros1982

Google just informed me that a 2022 Gallup poll concluded that 7.1% of adult Americans identified as LGBT. It is a fact that there are gay people in the West, Eros. It would actually confuse children to deny these kinds of facts.

The question is, why do you want to deny these kinds of facts?

Claiming that I said things against gays is just a bad lying habit you have to get rid of... if philosophy really interests you. — Eros1982

If you're not bigoted against gay people then why would you have a problem with a gay model?

But your conclusion that I am prejudicial to gays does not follow from my argument that kids may be in need of models which lets say show feminine features in girls. — Eros1982

You wrote about how difficult it must be for children to grow up in a world with gay people, essentially. Gay people have always existed. It’s a fact of life and not some kind of modern ‘liberal’ invention.

It is beyond idiotic to claim that there is a lack of feminine models in Western culture, so you’re either a moron or you’re being dishonest.

You are suggesting that there’s a flaw in my reasoning but don’t say what it is. This is another instance of dishonesty by you.

Ellen is famously gay and you think she’s a bad model, therefore I conclude that you must be prejudiced against gay people.

Incidentally…

In all ancient cultures… — Eros1982

Again you appeal to tradition for legitimacy and this expresses a conservative slant. I don’t think that you are being honest in this topic.

I don't know.... but imagine how difficult must be for children growing up in a world where their cereals boxes have the image of a woman looking like a boy and dressing like a man (I am not inventing it, check Cheerio Ellen Boxes). — Eros1982

So you are clearly prejudiced against gay people. Who else are you prejudiced against?

primary education (role models) — Eros1982

You talk a lot about models but won’t say what good models are. If you don’t know what good models are then how can you know what bad are, or whether or not it might be better to lose models entirely.

So what makes a good model?

diversity be kept under control through democratic means (without punishing anyone, but through having immigration quota and making sure that everyone who enters and lives in that country accept some standards and models or at least be educated towards those standards and models).

I don't see anything bad with this last option. — Eros1982

So what exactly would this reeducation look like? If you’re saying that it would be established through democratic means, how would that work? If it’s just a brochure that’s handed out at immigration centers and maternity wards, what sort of things would be written on it?

Liberals tend to be open to progress or tinkering with models and conservatives tend to be traditional or to conserve models. There’s a place for both and the apparent differences are not as great as they may seem. Beware anyone, like a politician for example, who polarizes the differences.

I believe in universal healthcare, better elementary education, global warming, big government, infrastructure spending, taxing the rich, social services, some kind of egalitarianism, and so on. — Eros1982

Does anyone really want “big government”? Honestly, it doesn’t seem like you have a good grasp of liberalism/conservatism, or you’re at least not showing how your reasoning, values, or moral framework align with these things that you believe in.

I consider myself left-wing liberal — Eros1982

Why? It’s hard to make out much of anything from your posts in this topic, though you are clearly critical of American liberalism and express no critiques of American conservatism.

There are studies with infints that give creatence to the notion of moral intuition. I will not bother to look them up for you though. Google it.

Moral frameworks are built on these moral intuitions, or so say they who subscribe to moral foundations theory. Your tribe might say "potato" whereas my tribe says "potahto".

An unexamined life is folly.

More so an undying hatred for the establishment uniparty and the State, but tomatoes tomatoes. — NOS4A2

Trump was head of state. He may claim to be against the establishment and out of your great love for him I suppose that you have no choice but to believe him.