Either America will become a second rate empire (like Rome) or someone with that type of magic will find a way to unite us for a cause. — Trey

So what would be a good cause? and would that cause justify the means (Hilter magic)?

Your wording was awkward, stating “we are influenced by group-think”, because it’s like saying that we’re influenced by social conformity. Social conformity is often regarded as weak or too timid, and in that case it can be repellent.

I think that people can be conditioned to enjoy certain things as opposed to others. — Apollodorus

That is certainly true, yes. If I grew up in the South then perhaps I would enjoy country music, for instance, though if I were so conditioned… I would actually enjoy country music.

After all, we are influenced by group think and by the dominant mentality and culture of the society we live in. — Apollodorus

Again, if I grew up in the South I would have been influenced by whatever subcultures exists there, and they would have left an indelible mark. You just pointed out yourself they we’re conditioned this way, to enjoy certain things as opposed to others.

I don’t see how group-think relates to this. Group-think is an issue when serious errors are made because criticism is discouraged within a group. For example, if someone made a Pepsi commercial where Kendall Jenner saves BLM protesters from being shot because she tamed a police officer by giving him a Pepsi, that might appear rather tone-deaf and end up being largely counterproductive to the endeavor. Yes-(wo)men only say yes, and so mistakes are made.

I think the whole concept of videos staged by clever record companies that manipulate, exploit, and fool the public for profit is wrong. I would rather watch something more traditional, more authentic, and more dignified, like Spanish flamenco, Irish or Greek dancing, or even ballet that at least has some artistic and cultural value. — Apollodorus

Well la-di-da, :razz: , but seriously, people are fooled into believing that they enjoy something that they actually don’t enjoy?

I recommend any place that at least knows the meaning of progress, and perhaps on the coast with a temperate climate.

LOL. Just go back and listen to how the left was anti-vaxxers when Trump was president. — Harry Hindu

I won’t bother asking you to support this in any meaningful way.

So, the claim that the vaccine is more dangerous than the cure, even for the elderly isn't something you heard that is a reasonable explanation for not getting vaccinated? I'm confused on that point. — Harry Hindu

I’ve heard some people claim that the earth is flat.

Still confused?

How is the economic recovery being helped if the vaccinated still have to mask themselves — Harry Hindu

The vaccinated need to wear masks because…?

Yes, counter-cultural or anti-cultural sounds about right. And anything that serves as a substitute for traditional culture qualifies as "progressive" in certain quarters where deconstruction and replacement count as progress. — Apollodorus

You should move to a better quarter.

Okay good, you agree that such demarcations allow or facilitate abuse rather than cause it. If you’re actually interested in solving a problem it’s usually best to deal with the cause of it.

And it seems to me that wisdom is fast disappearing from both language and culture under the modernizing influence of "gangsta cultcha" and other progressive trends .... — Apollodorus

I’ve been under the impression that gangsta cultcha was pop rather than progressive or regarded as dispensing wisdom, though in some part authentically counter-cultural and validly so.

One needn’t use these taxonomies to recognize that people apply entire stereotypes to them, draw false conclusions from them, and abuse others because of them. — NOS4A2

What exactly do you mean by claiming that people abuse others because of pseudoscientific taxonomies? If I want to abuse or marginalize a group I can creatively contrive any number of classifications that may facilitate my efforts, to the weak minded and/or unprincipled.

Ignoring an advantage ≠ ignoring racism. — NOS4A2

People aren't racist because they dislike diversity. They're racist out of ignorance and/or because they know, perhaps not even on a conscious level, that it gives them an advantage over the marginalized group in some way.

How so? It may be fair to say that popular American culture portrays black men as more violent than other groups, if that’s what you’re suggesting.

It's the author's mental disorders plus the presence of black people that triggers the oppression. — K Turner

Their emotional reactions are maladaptive (not appropriate to the circumstances). Maladaptive triggers can be inexplicable and literally anything. I developed panic disorder at one point in my youth so I have some firsthand experience in the matter.

The idea that one will ignore racism by refusing to include racial taxonomies into his thinking is false on its face, because racializing people, viewing them as a member of this or that racial group and deriving assumptions thereby, is the problem to begin with. — NOS4A2

No, the problem is taking advantage of a marginalized group. Ignoring an advantage allows the privileged group to keep whatever advantage they have.

For a more modern take I can recommend How to Be a Stoic: Using Ancient Philosophy to Live a Modern Life by Massimo Pigliucci

I suppose you could say that this person is oppressed by their mental disorders and maladaptive perceptions.

The vaccines only suppress symptoms and neither prevent becoming infected nor infecting others. — 180 Proof

Yes, I was wrong to theorize that it could be eliminated through vaccination, though it would all but eliminate fear of severe symptoms and no longer cripple the economy, perhaps. The way things are going, it looks like we’re headed towards limited lockdowns again.

To make this world a better place, ser. — Baden

That’s adorable.

(Caveat: so far, none of the big pharma (mRNA) Covid-19 vaccines have been given full approval by the US FDA or any its international counterparts – they are to high degrees (so far) symptomatically effective yet with undetermined long-term side-effects (re: safety?). Scientifically, rather than politically, it makes more sense to wait for an approved vaccine – I'm a long hauler by the way – conscientiously caught between a rock and hard place. Yes, it's a tradeoff of risk vs uncertainty (N.N.Taleb)) — 180 Proof

Might there not be long-term side-effects from contracting COVID? In any case, the point I was trying to make by bringing this up is that at the beginning of the pandemic Trumpers were saying that Americans should be willing to make sacrifices and take health risks in order to protect the economy. Theoretically, if everyone got vaccinated the pandemic would be greatly reduced if not eliminated and the economy would no longer be affected by it. What happened to their brave capitalistic patriotism? I’m suggesting that positions are often based in social solidarity and following a perceived authority rather than facts or principles.

Anti-vaxxer's are like climate change deniers, or in the case specific to this topic, systemic racism deniers, and are positions taken to express tribal solidarity.
— praxis

I do know who you are talking about, but that categorization can be used quickly to squelch any debate of quite valid issues. — ssu

I edited what you quoted to say “positions often taken…” The telltale sign is a lack of evidence or reasonable argument.

To protect the non-adults from reading naughty words and ideas?

What do you think anti-vac and vaccinated are, if not identities? — Harry Hindu

Anti-vaxxer's are like climate change deniers, or in the case specific to this topic, systemic racism deniers, and are positions often taken to express tribal solidarity. I agree that the foundation of this is like religion and the value it places on social solidarity over truth or actual principles.

Maybe we should ask people why they aren't getting vaccinated instead of demonizing them when you have no idea what their reasoning is? — Harry Hindu

I don't think that it's particularly controversial to claim that the economic recovery would be aided by as many people getting vaccinated as quickly as possible. I've heard people claim that the vaccine is more dangerous than the cure, even for the elderly. I have yet to hear what I think is a reasonable explanation for not getting vaccinated. Do you know of any?

What gives you the right to determine the medical decisions of others? — Harry Hindu

Not exactly sure what you're talking about, the Food & Drug Administration, for example, consistently makes this sort of determination. Prior to the existence of the FDA all sorts of toxins were sold to the public without their knowledge.

More relevant to this topic, I assume that you believe employers should have the right to make hiring decisions based on race, sex, age, or any other criteria.

Should others make medical decisions for you? — Harry Hindu

No one is forced to get vaccinated, though the choice to not get vaccinated has an impact on society. Judging by the evidence I think it's irresponsible to not get vaccinated. Also judging by the evidence, I think it's irresponsible to deny climate change or systemic racism.

So you've never flagged a moderator's post? — frank

I've never flagged any post. I'm not sure why any adult would.

Against the Grain was eye opening.

In the middle of The Other Black Girl by Zakiya Dalila Harris. :up:

I think Nietszches critique of Christianity as a slave morality has a grain of truth. — Ross Campbell

I'm not sure what he means exactly by 'slave morality' but all religions are rather the same in this regard, and Buddhism is in no way an exception.

the foundation of the problem... — Harry Hindu

... isn't identity politics, it's politicizing some issue, and that can be done with practically anything. Currently popular is vaccination vs antivaccination. Many Trumpian antivac supporters are themselves vaccinated, though they may decline to admit it, inanely claiming HIPAA rights violations or whatever, and apparently could care less if a portion of their followers die from not being vaccinated.

Even if there were a significant risk with getting vaccinated, shouldn't Trumpian "conservatives" be willing to take a health risk in order to get the economy going full-steam? Isn't that what a brave patriot would do for their nation's economy? That seemed to be their courageous logic at the beginning of the pandemic. How did it get turned around? If you have no actual principles and are merely a group-thinking follower, the Trumps of the world can make you dance like a mindless puppet on strings.

:lol:

The next line is “though frankly I would be the antipode of the Indian Buddha,” and the rest of the section largely describes how much Nietsz failed to have a good understanding of Buddhism.

So true.

I guess you've never heard of the Zen Mastercard.

And isn't there supposed to be a money trail between the hit man and who sends the hit man? — Harry Hindu

That’s the saddest part, Trump didn’t do jack for his base and none of the wealthy who scored big under his administration stormed the capital.

Perhaps Nietzsche doesn't realize that Stoicism has had a huge influence on western thought and culture, not only Christianity. — Ross Campbell

In what way exactly? Westerners seem more than ever wanting to be told what to think and how to act, and are generally clueless about what may lead to well-being. Our culture values wealth and status far more than meaning and eudaimonia.

Couple struggling with relationship get stuck in a musical. Hillarious.

one of my boys fully intends on being a stay at home parent. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Theoretically men can breastfeed, though it may require hormonal injections of some kind.

Do you stand on the toilet seat and squat? I'm just trying to form a visual. — Hanover

I made a wooden platform that wraps around the bowl at a slight angle and large enough for the feet. It stands about six inches off the ground. And no, I don’t take it with me wherever I go. When I’m away from home you can form a visual of me sporting these…

All the usual issues such as tinnitus, lumbar and cervical spine, mild eczema and hemorrhoidal tissues. Also social anxiety.

I’ve had tinnitus for many years. It took a few years to get habituated to it, really bugged at first. I’ve found that it can be eliminated by proper diet but I’ve only been able to abstain from all refined sugars, caffeine, and alcohol for only about a year at a time. I suppose that it prevents me from deeply abusing those substances so possibly a positive in that sense.

Low back and neck problems have been an issue since early 20’s and went to a chiropractor religiously for years until I was in a position about 8 years ago where my healthcare insurance wouldn’t cover it. That was the best thing that could have happened, turns out, because I started practicing the McKenzie Method and after about a year I was better than I ever was with chiropractic care. I was even able to surf again. I can surf almost daily now with no back or neck problems. Just about every day starts with my own physical therapy regimen however.

Haven’t had a hemorrhoid flair up in years after I started squatting while poohing. Apparently we’ve evolved doing it squatting and there’s much less resistance or pressure doing it that way.

At one point in my life I developed anxiety disorder with full blown panic attacks. It was so bad at one point that I bought a Smith & Weston high caliber (don’t recall the specific caliber) revolver. But I worked through it, and studying philosophy actually helped, by the way, as well as other studies, and naturally maturing.

Because some got lose after a hurricane in the 90's, wild chickens are everywhere on the island of Kauai. A few years ago we lived in a house on the edge of a wooded valley there and the chickens would run around in big herds around the yard. Herds (or is it pride?) of feral cats too.

Since ethics concerns itself at least in part with daily decisions and behavior, should a criteria of an ethical system be that it is simple and easy-to-understand? — darthbarracuda

Sure, if daily decisions and behavior are simple and easy to understand. That isn't typically the case, however.

Should we expect an ethical system to provide not just a theoretical but also a pragmatic guide to life? — darthbarracuda

Moral development evolves within individuals and cultures. A one-size-fits-all would stifle development and lead to rigidity.

On the Surfer Magazine forum, you get a notification when someone likes your post, and the name(s) of those who've liked a post is shown at the bottom of the post. That is good feedback. There's no notification on this platform and members don't know what posts are liked, and they don't know who liked their posts. Pretty useless feedback. I think it's much more useful to show the post count.

Not true for parrots. We have a conure, a pionus, some kind of African, and feed them way more than they can eat each day.

Dogs though, I think that any I’ve had would probably eat until they were sick, given free rein at an all-you-can-eat steak house or whatever.

I may need to find an avatar that's more my "spirit bird". — Noble Dust

You must have an adorable spirit.