Knowing you can control everything, you would still try to keep it as bad as you can make it because you don't want to be disappointed? It sounds like a very sad case of a self fulfilling prophecy. — FlaccidDoor

Some believe that what we can control is quite limited so it is as though you are endorsing a happy fantasy, from that vantage point. If we have no expectations, or low expectations, we can't be disappointed, and as a wiseman once said...

There is no worse death than a death in disappointment, thus we should seek the death of disappointment. — Wiseman

In the Trumpian value system they would be classified as losers and suckers.

That you believe such a thing occurred is a testament to your own value system, one easily moved to conclusion by gossip and palace intrigue. — NOS4A2

Considering that the previous line to the one you quote suggested that the NYT published a headline that read "Insurrection by orange man almost wipes America out," any half-wit might have at least suspected that I was speaking rather tongue-in-cheek. It suits your tedious (and now largely irrelevant) narrative that anti-Trumpers are irrational, I realize, by making the claim that I essentially don't value truth and will swallow whatever story is published by the 'fake news media'.

You are basically claiming that I share your and Trumps values or that I don't value truth. I do value truth and that's one reason I'm anti-Trump.

Recently the lawyer for Sidney Powell, one of the most prominent instigators of the BIG LIE, stated in court recently that “No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact.” In other words, Trump and gang were fully aware that his base is comprised of suckers and were speaking directly to them and not 'reasonable people'.

Of course he regards them as losers and suckers.

As in taking headlines like, "Insurrection by orange man almost wipes America out" with a grain of salt, is not the same as saying the insurrection did not happen. — FlaccidDoor

The New York Times and their ridiculously hyperbolic headlines, whaddya gonna do. :brow:

The only confirmed murders were by the police to the rioters. — FlaccidDoor

In the Trumpian value system they would be classified as losers and suckers.

I think you overestimate the degree of acceptance of those things that people can do a great deal about. We tend to think that we have freewill but that is largely an illusion. We can pretend, of course, and that offers some comfort, but the truth is that we are conditioned beings and have relatively little control of anything. The best laid plans of men are mostly fairytales who's ultimate design is to make us feel good about ourselves.
— praxis

That's the difference between people who concentrate on what is happening outside of themselves v. those who seek their meaning from within. On the outside it's you against The Universe. On the inside, it's you. Once the inside you gets its act together, then you can go outside of yourself and navigate The Universe with skill and purpose, focusing on the good and helping with the bad. — synthesis

False inside/outside narrative designed to make believers feel good about themselves, and that's okay.

Alone, in pain, and miserable. I only say that because that's how I imagine it will be, and I don't want to be disappointed when the time comes.

The human condition seems to be one of non-acceptance of those things that people can do little about and acceptance of those things that people can do a great deal about. Seems as if this inversion needs to be turned right-side-up. What say you? — synthesis

I think you overestimate the degree of acceptance of those things that people can do a great deal about. We tend to think that we have freewill but that is largely an illusion. We can pretend, of course, and that offers some comfort, but the truth is that we are conditioned beings and have relatively little control of anything. The best laid plans of men are mostly fairytales who's ultimate design is to make us feel good about ourselves.

The love of money is the root of all evil -- St. Paul
— Caldwell

How do you see this changing people's actions or attitudes towards life? — FlaccidDoor

In the realization that the love of money does not lead to well-bing. Hey! that's what I'd say on my deathbed, "the love of money does not lead to well-being, my friends"... [lights out]

In the unimaginable event that Trump had a successful coup d'état on January 6th, I wonder if he would have made horn guy the Secretary of Agriculture. I assume he has penchant for animal husbandry.

People need motivation to achieve beyond and above — synthesis

They need motivation to achieve Bed Bath and Beyond, but even those are going out of business now. Amazon and slave labor proved to be more innovative and cheap, I guess. Yay capitalism!

how would your redistribution schemes work — synthesis

Funny how when the rich are taxed at a higher rate they call it redistribution but not when their taxes are reduced.

You can attempt to attenuate the corruption at the top through socialism (which also cuts out most of the innovation/discovery as well as destroying incentive), or you can allow people to be as creative as possible and keep incentives in place (with REAL checks and balances) and then the entire society can benefit from the people who dedicate their entire lives to this sort of thing. — synthesis

Would the world really be lesser without all the wonderful efficiency, innovation, and incentive (money)? Granted there's a lot of money to be made in inventing, financing, producing, marketing, etc etc, all the junk (mostly unhealthy junk) in the world, but money isn't everything, is it? Beyond basic needs it doesn't offer well-being.

very sparse with anything close to violent — FlaccidDoor

Another Kool-Aid guzzler, I guess.

The Capitol assault resulted in one of the worst days of injuries for law enforcement in the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. At least 138 officers — 73 from the Capitol Police and 65 from the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington — were injured, the departments have said. They ranged from bruises and lacerations to more serious damage such as concussions, rib fractures, burns and even a mild heart attack.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/us/politics/capitol-riot-police-officer-injuries.html

People rioted outside Trump's inauguration. People rioted outside the Whitehouse. People overtook entire blocks of some cities. Since they were violent and were aimed at government, were these insurrections to you? — NOS4A2

I suppose the difference is that they were violent protests with the aim of making a statement or venting frustrations, whereas those who stormed the capital sought to force congress to reelect Trump. For instance, none of the rioters that you refer to were charged with conspiracy, were they?

You are arguing that it was not violent and not against the government?

I'm arguing it isn't an uprising or rebellion. — NOS4A2

Looks violent to me.


And they sought to overturn the election, so not only were they against the government but against the will of the people.

Irrational of course, but then recently the lawyer for Sidney Powell, one of the most prominent instigators of the BIG LIE, stated in court recently that “No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact.”

Also, many of the rioters have been charged with conspiracy, so not just people getting carried away in the moment.

I don't see an argument, naturally.

I used your argument. — NOS4A2

You are arguing that it was not violent and not against the government?

I don't see an argument, naturally.

"Condemned mostly by Republicans" but "No outrage."

Hmmm.

So what did you base your insurrection theory on, if not someone else's thinking? — NOS4A2

The actions of those who stormed the capital and the meaning of insurrection.

So if you can think for yourself, how was it not an insurrection?

You can't think for yourself?

America did survive the insurrection for the simple reason there wasn’t one. — NOS4A2

Forcibly entering the chambers of congress with the intent of overturning the results of a free and fair election. That’s not insurrection?

I wish he had led the nutters in because then he would now be where he belongs, behind bars with horn guy.

Trump launched his own cute little four page website: https://www.45office.com/

Oh how the mighty have fallen. :fear:

How do you reconcile the fact that the US is about the only developed nation without socialized healthcare and yet the US government pays far more than any other nation, and with no better healthcare outcomes.
— praxis

Corporatism and massive corruption on every level. — synthesis

The whole point of socialism is to protect the working class from corporations and the like.

Go tell that to the 100M people murdered by the Communist/Socialist governments in the 20th century. — synthesis

How do you reconcile the fact that the US is about the only developed nation without socialized healthcare and yet the US government pays far more than any other nation, and with no better healthcare outcomes.

The best way to do this is make people responsible for their own health care (surgically remove the government and corporations) and then people might just pay attention. — synthesis

Your thinking is that if healthcare providers were somehow (magically?) untouchable by government and corporations that people would for some inexplicable reason start to eat right, exercise, get enough sleep, and pray or meditate daily?

My current understanding is that the cost of energy will rise in the near future, having reached peek oil, and this will slow economic growth, but there's no immediate end in sight.
— praxis

In theory, this debt bubble has to pop sooner or later. That's the main impediment to growth. Since all matter is energy, that issue should take care of itself. — synthesis

In theory it's possible to generate energy as cheaply and efficiently as oil, but I don't think anyone has developed it in reality yet. Cheap energy is the impediment to growth, in our current economic/financial system, and we see the global Ponzi scheme falter all the time. Many things can collapse it, like a pandemic, most recently.

If you simply mean that capitalism and the global banking system is unsustainable then yeah, no-shit Sherlock, but if you mean anything more specific it would be interesting to hear.
— praxis

Capitalism is what it is.. What's mostly wrong wit it are the incredible levels of corruption that have plagued every system. — synthesis

You seemed to be concerned with sustainability initially and have now switched to corruption. I was interesting in knowing if you could back up the claim that the shits gonna hit the fan "sooner than you think" in any way. My current understanding is that the cost of energy will rise in the near future, having reached peek oil, and this will slow economic growth, but there's no immediate end in sight. Economy's will become increasingly unstable and it will be difficult to adjust to lower growth. Pandemics, war over depleting resources, and possibly technologies like GAI are more immediate existential threats.

The funny money is going to go away sooner than you think. — synthesis

If you simply mean that capitalism and the global banking system is unsustainable then yeah, no-shit Sherlock, but if you mean anything more specific it would be interesting to hear.

Is it impossible to save stupid people from smart people?

There, I fixed it for you.

The arguably irreversible damage done to children and teens by the restrictions and changes to their freedoms is huge. They have suffered and continue to suffer so much. — dazed

This is bad, if there's much truth to it, but the problem is not the virus. Something really messed up with the lives of these kids that a lockdown irreversibly damages them.

Does anybody in the West still want to be free? — synthesis

Few seem to understand freedom requires responsibility.

According to evolution theory we’re all 100% evolved from pond scum, I believe.

What if a vicious serial killer tripped on his way back from his most recent depravity and incurred a serious head injury. He is found and taken to the hospital where he lays in a coma for several months. When he awakes he has no memory of his past deeds. He recovers and spends the remainder of his life helping the poor and downtrodden. If evidence arises linking him to the crimes he committed should he be prosecuted. — Steve Leard

There is no remainder to prosecute.

Thank you for convincing me that your really ARE 100% evolved from pond scum. — Joe0082

He 100% debunked your debunking?

No clue about anything (intellectual). — synthesis

That's nonsensical because you would have to have a clue in order judge.

It could be a million different things. It never fails to amaze me that (the vast majority) of people simply cannot handle the notion that they have no clue. — synthesis

No clue about how to properly do the laundry, how the human mind works, or no clue about the nature of reality? Can you be clear about what you mean?

99.99....% of what you perceive leaves no time for interpretation. Just think about how much is going on in your field of view at once (an infinite number of things). You have the ability to process (before conceptualization) all of this information in order to make your way, but there is no time for interpretation. — synthesis

The process is based in prediction, it’s generally believed. For example:

The rain in Spain falls mainly on the ________.

Jake and Jill went up the ________.

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well, you might find
You get what you _______.

Chances are that your brain filled in at least one of the blanks above automatically and without your conscious consent. It is continuously making predictions in this manner. Do these predictions reflect ‘reality’? No, they are frequently wrong. Worse, they usually reflect some bias, and worse still, may trigger a maladaptive emotional response.

There are good reasons to value the mental state that your talking about but this ‘seeing reality’ business is pure fantasy.

How is it possible to see the near present (tree) and the past (star light) at the same time? — synthesis

Starlight is lazy?

I realize impermanence in just about every moment. It is made real with every change.

I know what you're trying to say. To me it seems like you're focussing too much on impermanence and should rather be explaining non-duality or transcendence to us.

The teaching is to get you to see the relative (impermanent) nature of all things intellectual and get back to your task...meditation. — synthesis

What is so difficult about observing or understanding impermanence? It seems extraordinarily simple to me. It is also * * * dare I say it * * * an intellection.