• Filling in your fractures with gold
    There’s a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in — Leonard Cohen
  • The narratives we tell ourselves
    I can honestly state that it is unreasonable to speculate that just because there are pictures of Trump on a van that the person killed because of Trump's speechLD Saunders

    I could honestly state that as well. Trump’s speeches are mind-numbing. I don’t know how anyone could listen all the way through one. And in any case, the bomber didn’t kill anyone.

    Can you honestly say it's unreasonable to speculate that Trump may have had an influence on Cesar Sayoc?
  • The narratives we tell ourselves
    Not to mention you keep, at the very least, insinuating, that Trump's speech has caused the violence. With zero evidence to support your claim. You have actually proved my point if anything.LD Saunders

    I've pointed out that the president has significant influential power. Do you disagree?

    Also, I wrote:
    Given this evidence* I think it's reasonable to speculate that Trump may have been influential in the cases you mention.

    I didn't say that "he caused the violence" but that it's reasonable to speculate he may have been influential. I assume you understand the difference and that your 'made-up narrative' about what I said, and what "major news networks" (such as The Young Turks :razz: ) said, is a departure from the truth.

    * A bit more evidence for your consideration:
    9xkcvf3p7ku11.jpg

    The bombers van covered in pro-Trump images and some of Trump's divisive slogans. Can you honestly say it's unreasonable to speculate that Trump may have had an influence on this guy?
  • How to Save the World!
    some governing mechanismJake

    Lol

    Only two simple steps to saving the world:

    Step 1
    Suggest that some mechanisms will cure cancer, feed the world, end war, fix climate change, etc etc.

    Step 2
    Declare yourself philosopher king!
  • The narratives we tell ourselves
    Praxis: All over. Just click on YouTube and watch videos of CNN, MSNBC, and numerous political pundits. They have been saying over and over that Trump is responsible.LD Saunders

    If Trump weren't president then he wouldn't need to be responsible for the influential power of the position. But he is president, unfortunately.

    And I did do a quick search and could find any such claims. I guess you couldn't either?
  • Placebo Effect and Consciousness


    I recall reading about newer research that shows nerve connectivity between the organs responsible for immune function and the brain. They found more direct connections than previously believed anyway, if I recall correctly.

    It's said to have implications for how we deal with stress. For instance, if we interpret a stressor more as a threat then our body (including our immune system) will prepare for injury, but if we interpret it more as a challenge then our body will prepare for performance. Clearly more of the stressors in our modern lives would be better treated as challenges than direct threats of bodily harm.
  • The narratives we tell ourselves
    Show me any scientific evidence for how Trump's rhetoric caused the bombings, which is a claim numerous people on major news outlets have been making.LD Saunders

    I don't believe this is true. Can you show where such a claim is made?
  • The narratives we tell ourselves
    Are you claiming then that you know that Trump's rhetoric caused the bomber to send out bombs?LD Saunders

    No. Are any news networks making this claim?

    I believe it's reasonable to claim that the president of the US has a significant degree of influential power. It's a fact that Trump has demonized the media, claiming that they're the "enemy of the people," immoral, etc., and just last week praised an act of violence against a reporter. See:



    Also, various sources indicate a rise in hate crime crime since Trump was elected.

    Given this evidence I think it's reasonable to speculate that Trump may have been influential in the cases you mention.
  • The narratives we tell ourselves
    Why did the pipe boomer send one of his packages to CNN rather than Fox? Maybe he was working alphabetically?
  • Placebo Effect and Consciousness
    How does the conscious mind impair itself without administration of actual stimulants.BrianW

    By the brain releasing particular neurochemicals, I would guess.
  • How to Save the World!
    Yes, I read your post in it's entirety. You presented a problem. I'm waiting to see if you are interested enough in this problem to try to address it yourself. You're under no obligation to do so, but should you choose not to, I'm not interested in discussing this further with you.Jake

    It's not a problem, it's a correction. There is no type of person, discipline, organization, or government that can reliably take a parental role for the human race. You're wrong to claim that there is and your unwillingness to acknowledge this fact is both intellectually dishonest and, quite frankly, pathetic.
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity
    Have you ever read any Schopenhauer?frank

    No.
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity
    Karen Horney asserted that low self-esteem leads to the development of a personality that excessively craves approval and affection and exhibits an extreme desire for personal achievement. According to Alfred Adler’s theory of personality, low self-esteem leads people to strive to overcome their perceived inferiorities and to develop strengths or talents in compensation.Bitter Crank

    I imagine that low self-esteem has various expressions. This seems rather limited in view.
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity


    I think that ego has more to do with self-esteem and identity with the particulars that define a person. A person may have low self-esteem and identify as such. Low self-esteem can be part of a persons identity and if for whatever reason they suddenly and inexplicably had high self-esteem they wouldn't feel like themselves.

    I don't think it makes sense to suggest that a person with high self-esteem (or low self-esteem, for that matter) necessarily has a "strong sense of identity." Our sense of identity, all things working relatively normal, is all but inescapable. Our attachment to this identity or appraisal of its value may wax and wane. Maybe some people try to lift their self-assessment via conflict.
  • How to Save the World!
    I’m asking who these adult-adults are.
    — praxis

    Who do you think they are?

    Please note how you made NO EFFORT to address the question yourself.
    Jake

    ???

    I wrote:
    For children, there are adults who can responsibly handle dangerous substances and technologies and effectively limit the access children have to them for the children's safety. For adults, there is no more mature class that may reliably act as ‘adult-adults’.

    Did you not read this the first time around?

    Do you think anyone is falling for your bullcrap?
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity
    What are your thoughts?frank

    You're kinda all over the place so I'm not sure. Is that by design? Anyway, one thing that bugs is how you seem to strongly associate identity with ego. Is that how you see it?
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity


    Being calm and composed doesn’t come naturally to me at all. I really need to work for it. In any case, I don’t see how this relates.
  • How to Save the World!
    So who are these ‘adults’ (enlightened folk like yourself?) that will limit the powers available to the ‘children’?
    — praxis

    If you're interested in this question, you'll try to answer it yourself. If you don't try, you're not interested, and thus it wouldn't be a good use of our time to engage on the subject.

    I suspect you're just looking for something you can reject. If true, you can look forward to me saying the above a lot.
    Jake

    Your claim was that this is a matter of common sense and yet you appear unable to make any sense out of it.

    For children, there are adults who can responsibly handle dangerous substances and technologies and effectively limit the access children have to them for the children's safety. For adults, there is no more mature class that may reliably act as ‘adult-adults’.

    I’m not looking for something to reject. I asking who these adult-adults are. This is the lynchpin to your whole notion. Maybe you haven’t thought it through even this far? Maybe you actually do have some idea but fear of further ridicule prevents you from daring to mention it?
  • How to Save the World!
    My position is just simple common sense, no more complicated than how we routinely limit the powers available to children.Jake

    So who are these ‘adults’ (enlightened folk like yourself?) that will limit the powers available to the ‘children’?

    Common sense can be frightening.
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity
    The purpose for seeking conflict could be practice in argumentation in order to improve skills, or to gain a reward of some kind (perhaps only an ego boost), or merely for amusement.
    — praxis

    I agree. Any sort of conflict may or may not boost identity.
    frank

    So in the situation where someone seeks out a conflict in order to gain a gratifying sense of superiority your claim is that, if they’re victorious, their identity will be boosted?

    The particular behavior or habit would be boosted if they got a dopamine hit or whatever, but I don’t see how their ‘identity’ would be boosted. And what about the looser of the conflict who did not seek conflict? Your claim would seem to imply that their identity would be weakened. But what if they strongly identified as a looser? Then wouldn’t their identity be strengthened?

    Maybe it would help if you explained exactly how identity is strengthened or weakened?
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity
    The vigor with which you seek interpersonal conflict reflects what?frank

    The degree of seriousness in whatever the purpose is for seeking conflict, I suppose. The purpose for seeking conflict could be practice in argumentation in order to improve skills, or to gain a reward of some kind (perhaps only an ego boost), or merely for amusement.
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity


    Allow me to rephrase the question: what exactly do you mean when you say 'personality' in the opening post?
  • We need conflict for the sake of personal identity


    Personality. If you don't think it's complicated then you shouldn't have any trouble defining it clearly and comprehensively.
  • How to Save the World!
    I'm sure you're aware of the Peter Principle, which suggests that people will rise in their careers until they finally arrive at a job that they can't handle. That's basically what I'm suggesting, that we will continue to develop greater and greater powers until we inevitably create one that we can't manage. It's reasonable to argue that this has already happened with nuclear weapons.Jake

    Nuclear weapons have been around for about 75 years and we haven't blown ourselves up yet. Their existence may in effect have prevented war between nuclear powers.
  • How to Save the World!
    The question is moot because enough power to ruin the world is already available to people with bad motives or those who are too shortsighted.
    — praxis

    And so we should build even MORE such power, as fast as possible. That is the logic, or rather illogic, of the group consensus.
    Jake

    What you’re apparently failing to see is that the “more is better” impulse applies to any valuable resource and not just knowledge. You can’t cure the disease by treating a symptom, and knowledge or research may aid in finding a cure. That’s the logic.
  • How to Save the World!
    And so there is no escaping the question, how much power do we want to be available when people have bad motives, or fail to fully think through the consequences of well intended uses?Jake

    The question is moot because enough power to ruin the world is already available to people with bad motives or those who are too shortsighted. Our Western materialistic lifestyle is unsustainable. Obstructing scientific research won't stop that. Even if it were possible to restrict scientific research globally, one result could be hampering research that might help with the many challenges that future generations will face because of our bad motives and shortsightedness.

    No one would say that progress doesn't have risks, but what is the alternative? Stagnation in a globally locked-down police state? Security may be that important to you but I don't think it is for most people.
  • How to Save the World!
    Most of the culture, led by the cultural elites, is determined to cling blindly to a relationship with knowledge straight out of the 19th century.

    This is a philosophy forum. I'm arguing that our philosophy needs to be updated to match the technological environment, that we need to adapt philosophically to the new reality. And the group consensus says, "No, no, no and no, we're intent on staying in the past!".
    Jake

    Knowledge is a valuable resource. That fact hasn't changed over the years. Similarly, fat and sugar are still valuable resources today, although not as valuable as they were through most of human evolution. It would be beneficial to human flourishing if our appetite for sugar and fat were in sync with its current abundance, or if we all had the discipline to suppress our appetite for them. But it's common knowledge that our relationship with fat and sugar is unhealthy, for the most part at least.

    Cultural elites didn't make fat, sugar, or knowledge valuable to anyone. They're naturally valuable to us. Many people have 'adapted philosophically' and regulate their consumption of fat, sugar, and knowledge to healthy amounts.

    I think what you may have been trying to say is that cultural elites in Western society promote a materialistic value system and that knowledge can be a valuable aid in developing a materialistic lifestyle. However you put it, the underlying problem isn't knowledge but the values that utilize it. Knowledge can be used for human flourishing or selfish and unsustainable hoarding of wealth and power, depending on the underlying values of the users.
  • How to Save the World!


    Conservativism in general seems to be based in fear of change and maintaining the status quo. Problem is that even if progress were somehow obstructed we are still on track for collapse of some kind, the way things are now being so unsustainable.
  • How to Save the World!
    When I first got in to web publishing in 1995 you had to be a kind of NASA scientist power nerd type person to create a website. I could charge people $75 just to upload some images to a web server. These days, your dog can create a web site for free in countless places.Jake

    Ah, I get it now, you’re anti-progress because you can’t keep pace with it and lost your livelihood. High end web developers still charge at least that much.

    Change isn’t always comfortable, Jake, but it is inevitable.
  • How to Save the World!
    Why you think the prospect of this happening in the DNA field is ridiculous is beyond me.Jake

    This is a misapprehension or misrepresentation. I wrote that claiming the story you contrived about my neighbor wasn’t a story you contrived was rediculous.
  • How to Save the World!


    Now I feel embarrassed. My neighbor is probably a terrorist as well.
  • How to Save the World!


    Jake, try to be sensible. You invented a story about my neighbor creating new life forms in his garage and then claimed that it’s not a story you invented. You must realize how ridiculous that sounds.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    From CNN (fake news):
    "It's going to be an election of the caravan," Trump said at a campaign rally in Missoula, Montana. "You know what I'm talking about."

    In an extended riff about illegal immigration and the caravan, Trump told the crowd that Democrats were banking on the caravan to arrive before Election Day so they could vote for Democrats -- even though as asylum-seekers, they wouldn't be citizens and therefore would not be able to vote in the congressional elections.

    It’s frightening to think that tactics like this actually work. Are Trump supporters really that moronic?
  • How to Save the World!
    I didn't invent this story. That's exactly what's going to happenJake

    It hasn’t happened yet but you didn’t invent the story. Truly remarkable nonsense.
  • How to Save the World!
    As wonderful as all these dreamy notions are, the fact remains is that civilization is racing towards calamity today, and it is imperfect humans who will have to fix it. You guys don't wish to face this, and so you are escaping in to various futuristic fantasies.Jake

    You’re the one who started with the sci-fi story about my neighbor creating new life forms in his garage like a futuristic Frankenstein, and I pointed out how silly or unuseful such wild speculations are. Why are your stupid fantasies valid and ours not?

    I’m pretty much convinced you’re trolling, at least for the most part, Jake, given the nonsense you’ve been spewing and your lack of concern for topic subject matter. This topic is titled “How to Save the World!” which in itself shows a recognition of the ‘calamity civilization is racing towards’ and an intention to confront the problem.
  • Theology, Philosophy,
    To be candid, however, what caught my eye was, "it should not only be respected, but protected against the too frequent assaults of superficial minds."tim wood

    That is the entire trick of it, as I see it, to quiet the incessant assault of superficial minds (mostly our own).
  • How to Save the World!
    The "more is better" paradigm you are defending arose in an era when the powers available to human beings were modest in scale, in comparison to today, and what is coming. That era is over, and my honorable fellow members along with most of the rest of society, are still stuck there philosophically.Jake

    And you're not stuck in it? What is your lifestyle like? Is it eco friendly or reflect an ethic of scientific/technological economy? We know that you value the free exchange of information via the internet, and computerization in general (which is an existential AGI threat to humanity), if nothing else about your true values. Frankly, without knowing anything else about you we know that you’re a fucking hypocrite.
  • How to Save the World!
    If my neighbor could do something that impressive it would mean that biotechnology had advanced to a degree that more things are possible than we could imagine. For example, with that advanced biotech, we might have modified our immune systems to withstand any biohazard that a terrorist could unleash, or that we modified our neurology so that we had less fear and aggression and more cooperativeness so that terrorists would no longer exist, or we might have wiped ourselves out with the tech long before my neighbor could get his grubby little hands on it.
    — praxis

    Or a million things. Or your neighbor might crash the ecosystem before any of that happens.
    Jake

    I don't think you're getting the point. You talk about scale but fail to appriciate the full potential length of it. Knowledge and technology could potentially equip (via biotech enhancement or whatever) our species to be effectively responsible enough to handle dangerous tech.

    Maybe you haven't read enough sci-fi or otherwise lack imagination?
  • Theology, Philosophy,
    True mysticism is never found without some theologytim wood

    Not true at all. Mystic experiences can occur in the absence of theology. Theology is often built around mystic experiences, but theology doesn't require mysticism.