If it's not prying and you think it might be relevant, can you describe the emotional tints. — T Clark

Essentially any inexplicable and maladaptive feelings, usually bad of course, otherwise they wouldn’t be a problem.

The moment something is a "method", it is already an obstacle to awareness/presence. — Aurora

Isn’t not practicing a method a method? :s

I think that I was too aware of my emotional state as a child and teen, or rather that I felt things to strongly, and this resulted in anxiety problems in later life. I’ve had to work at unraveling the emotional tints in perception that were created in early development. That’s been liberating but I can’t say it’s been fun. Perception without those tints is enjoyable, as is meditative experiences and mindfulness.

So for instance someone might purchase a work of art as a useful investment and not because they like the art, valuing capital more than art.
— praxis

No difference. They still value the piece of art for one reason or another. — Agustino

Of course there's a difference. Valuing art as an investment expresses a capitalistic value system. Valuing art for aesthetics expresses a different value system, one based more in meaning than capital gain.

Though capitalism might be a fun game to play if you're good at it, it's meaningless and unsustainable. It's not human nature to compete for resources and hoard wealth. We can change our nature to act cooperatively for mutual benefit and live meaningful lives in a sustainable world.

I actually just thought it was funny. Haven't seen the movie. I think the leader is enough.

If nothing else, it's certainly failing to recognize advantage/disadvantage.

Useful is something that others find valuable. — Agustino

So for instance someone might purchase a work of art as a useful investment and not because they like the art, valuing capital more than art.

Imagine a world where aesthetic values are greater than materialistic values. Perhaps a nice alternative to the game of monopoly.

Perhaps that the propaganda was more successful than we might imagine.

You haven't explained exactly what you mean by useful. I suggest there can be a big difference between 'useful' and 'meaningful'.

In the real world, it's not money that matters, it's how useful you are to the rest of the world. If you are really really useful, then you will pretty much be rich. — Agustino

What do you mean by useful? Playing monopoly well is useful in the sense that it keeps the game going. Also useful in that it's the path of least resistance.

But again, the problem is that people keep pointing fingers at others, instead of focusing on what THEY can do to change their circumstances. It's always the other - it's because the 1% own 50% of the wealth that I am poor and my life sucks. That's how they think. Instead, they should realise that the 1% owning 50% of the wealth does not stop them at all from selling to others and becoming rich themselves. — Agustino

You're speaking as though playing monopoly. What if there's a different game. A sustainable and more meaningful game.

I'm praxis. The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.

For example, if there was a surgery with 90% chance of success that could cure you of a serious disease, would you refuse the surgery and attempt to cure yourself through the mind alone? — Agustino

That depends on the procedure. You may be proceeding from a misconception however, the mere belief that a surgical procedure has the power to cure can be as beneficial as any faith healing, perhaps even more benefit for some.

You should read Cure, Agustino. It shows some science behind the "miracles".

permanence is not meaningless without a context. — Agustino

It’s dependent on other concepts (as well as everything the concepts depend on to exist), most pertinently impermanence.

Look at it this way, @Agustino, in order to evaluate the state or quality of something being permanent a requirement for doing so is having a comparison. Permanence is meaningless without a context, therefore permanence is a state or quality which is dependent on context. So by your own curious definition permanence is conditioned.

to say that permanence is a conditioning is BS — Agustino

It’s a state or quality. There are online dictionaries you know, if you don’t happen to have one laying about handy.

Permanence is not a conditioning. — Agustino

Can you expand on this? It doesn't make sense by itself.

The unconditioned reality cannot be impermanent. — Agustino

This is getting a bit tedious. No conditions, including the condition of (im)permanence, apply to that which is unconditioned, right?

I'm asking him to provide a doctrinal reference for a claim that a condition applies to something where, according to the mythology, conditions don't apply.

Buddhism in its traditional versions does not negate that there is an unchanging reality - which is Nirvana, Dhamma, Buddha. — Agustino

Doesn't deny that Nirvana is permanent, basically?

Nirvana isn't impermanent for example. — Agustino

Can you back this up with some doctrinal reference or anything?

I don't believe those concepts exist independently, personally.

Okay, so an alternative would be something that has an independent and unchanging existence. Do you know of anything like that?

Do you know what I mean by emptiness?

Sure, but business with the government is always different than business with a private. — Agustino

You're claiming that SpaceX is prohibited by the government to have any other contracts?

NASA, the military, and other industries will pay billions for the delivery of satellites into orbit. You claimed SpaceX doesn't fulfill a need or want.

Emptiness means that even the things you care about are empty though. That doesn't sound very peaceful. — Agustino

Why not? Is there an alternative?

SpaceX is extremely valuable to the US Government. Therefore that means that the company must be, to one extent or another, controlled by the government. They cannot do whatever they want with their rocket technology. — Agustino

Contracts are mutual agreements and many industries are regulated. None of this excludes competition.

The other reason why SpaceX is strange is because it doesn't actually fulfill a need or a want. — Agustino

Google "orbital satellite."

That requires a marketing perspective - understanding what people want and how their want can be fulfilled. So this is true for most businesses - unless you're doing something like Elon Musk with SpaceX. Then it's not as relevant. — Agustino

If SpaceX had a lot of competition it would be very relevant.

Jobs created an incredibly successful brand. The brand may eventually fizzle out, but creative business development and branding isn't a fad.

Don’t mind me. I was following the enlightened lead and expressing my inner Kevin.

It’s not nessisarily one approach or the other, you can be methodically creative, although this may require a discipline that creatives often lack.

In terms of stress and well-being, I’m inclined to think creatives are worse off. Recall the stereotypical tortured artist like Van Gogh.

Entrepreneurship requires creativity, yes?

What kind of business do you run, just out of curiosity?

Damn Russians.

That Agustino's concept of God is derived from culture? That would put me to sleep, sure. Actually, I woke this morning at around 3 am by some bad dreams and couldn't get back to sleep. My stress level has been generally higher lately and a disturbing visit to the vet's office yesterday (my dog's basically in palliative care now) didn't help. After trying for an hour I put on a hypnosis tape for sleep. Worked like a charm, so that's how I went bye byes last night. Some English dude telling me to relax, that I was calm and peaceful, etc.

On a deeper level, I find meaning and relief from existential anxiety in the concept of emptiness. A cultural gift not unlike that of Agustino's God. There's no real narrative to emptiness however, which is very much unlike most God stories.

Do you have a favorite bedtime story?

The influence of evolutionary biology on ethical philosophy: everything reduced to ‘what aids survival.’ — Wayfarer

Truth can be infuriating.

Have you read any Steven Pinker, btw? I’ve got a couple of his books in my wish list.

Assuming that’s a true story, forty people who waste a college education.

What can you do about that?

... are you suggesting that you agree with me and an analysis of content rather than emotions is more valuable? — TimeLine

I actually agree with you on everything except for a couple of absolutist positions you seem to hold, namely that content is relevant and emotion is irrelevant, and that we are only responsible for our own emotions.

When someone expresses condescension in this forum are they expressing their value of content or their value of emotion? If for whatever reason a person was conditioned in such a way they got a little dopamine hit whenever they put someone down, regardless if it interfered with the exchange of content, they might persist in this behavior because it feels good. In some situations at least, it would be all about the feeling and not the content. There are other reasons, of course, perhaps tactical in nature, to express condescension in this forum.

About only being responsible for our own emotions, I can appreciate relativism, but I don't believe it offers a carte blanche pass. If we're not sure about someone we can be cautious until getting to know them better, if we care to. The emotional landscape is not as dark and unnavigable as you paint it.

How dare you believe that you have the capacity to regulate another person' emotions. Can you not see how elitist and arrogant that is? — TimeLine

I can see how elitist and arrogant the strawman version of me that you've constructed is. The actual language I used is: "it couldn't hurt to try" and "attempt regulating." Once again you appear to sacrifice content for emotional impact, in this instance by employing an obvious fallacy.

Your claim that content is important and that attempting to consciously navigate the emotions of others is too ambiguous an undertaking to consider is unsound for the simple reason that emotions can either assist or stand in the way of the communication of content. It's really not as difficult as you suggest. Of course if content isn't so relevant that's another matter.

Your example of the bright but inarticulate youth is somewhat misleading in that it was about vulgar language, and not directed at an individual who might take it personally, such as a personal attack towards an individual such as yourself. I imagine you would have had the presence of mind to deal with it if he had been aggressive towards you personally. Your write:

I should overcome the emotions wrought by these expectations of decorum (which is actually my failure) and appreciate the content and by doing so return by giving them comments that may assist them to understand how best to explain what they are trying to say. That is my responsibility and that is the best way of influencing them to learn and develop. — TimeLine

I assume your comments were of a nature that would not intentionally elicit a negative emotional response that would in all likelihood inhibit communication. That would have been counterproductive and irresponsible.