• Ukraine Crisis
    Russia's rank: 51st, Spain: 29th. — Jabberwock

    It is true that some metrics can differ from the main point, but the premise is they are more developed than us (my country) and Ukraine, although the abusive Western propaganda wants to urgently prove otherwise.
  • How Do You Think You’re Perceived on TPF?
    If I die, nobody would truly care. This is even worse than if someone thinks negatively about you. When you pass unnoticed through life.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    wouldn't it be :up: if Ukraine developed toward something comparable to, say, Estonia, Germany, Czechia, Spain? — jorndoe

    Cool! What paradise it seems to live in a developed nation. "Developed" is another word which is very ambiguous, but rather than theorise about what Ukraine would look like if evil Russia were not around, I will show some facts and data (using Western metrics and even Economics Nobel Laurates, when this prize always goes for the USA).

    Economics: Russia is the 6th largest economy in the world, while Spain* is very mediocre (16th) and Ukraine is very poor, (60th).

    Employment data and metrics: 9.8% of unemployment in Ukraine, and increasing according to the IMF. Spain: 11.6% (June 2023) and 27.9% youth unemployment (15 to 24 year-olds; June 2023). Russia: 3.7% (December 2022). Who is the developed here in economic metrics? https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2023/October/weo-report?c=926,&s=NGDP_RPCH,NGDPD,PPPGDP,NGDPDPC,PPPPC,PCPIPCH,LP,&sy=2021&ey=2028&ssm=0&scsm=1&scc=0&ssd=1&ssc=0&sic=0&sort=country&ds=.&br=1

    Taking into account more metrics. Who is the one that contributed to the development of the world since the 2000s?
    Let's see the Nobel Prizes and compare them...
    Spain: ZERO.
    Ukraine: ZERO.
    Russia: SEVEN. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/

    Who is the developed here in the metrics of research?

    On education and school metrics: Russia has an adult literacy rate of 100%; (Spain) Spanish 15-year-olds are significantly below the OECD average of 493 in reading literacy, mathematics, and science. Ukraine was ranked 55th in 2023 in the Global Innovation Index. https://www.wipo.int/global_innovation_index/en/2023/index.html

    *I will use my country as an example.

    Honestly, I think the developed nation here is Russia. :eyes:

    FACTS. NO PRESS AND MEDIA.
  • Ukraine Crisis
    ↪Count Timothy von Icarus
    In general terms, your text precisely describes what I attempted to write, but I discussed this debate about 'metrics' and 'data' with @jorndoe and others in this thread, and the result is always the same. I think most of the rankings pop up spontaneously.

    I don't deny that Russia, as a state, has some issues. As you noted, they always rank very high in corruption, lawfare, low freedom and individual rights, etc. But Ukraine holds similar marks in these issues, yet what the Western media is doing is just 'bleaching' the image of the country because hey! Ukraine is our friend now, and we want them to be a developed nation as quickly as possible.

    The conclusion and my criticism of the links provided by @jorndoe is that they have the same result but hidden with a mask: both Russia and Ukraine are very corrupt, and no, the latter is not a consequence because Putin decided to start a war in 2022. Ukraine has always had this issue, as like most of the ex-soviet Republics. It just bothers me how the media is obsessed with manipulating us on the Ukraine issue. Dude, it is a backwards country. Simple.

    Precisely, most of these rankings do not have a big impact in the end. Yes, we know Venezuela is highly corrupt, but we still buy their oil. Do we care about their citizens?
    Finland always ranks very high in good standards, but @ssu is also critical to the system of his country, so there is nothing perfect.

    I will let the time speak for itself and show how Zelensky acts afterward. Will he still be the angel we all wish to have as a friend?
  • What are you listening to right now?
    I feel Irish this Saturday afternoon.





  • TPF Quote Cabinet
    'All bad art is the result of good intentions' — Oscar Wilde
  • Ukraine Crisis
    Corruption Perceptions Index 2023
    (The Wikipedia article has a summary)
    Somewhere around "the middle" you'll find Hungary and Moldova     — jorndoe

    Seriously, do you really believe in everything those 'sources' and 'indexes' say? Don't you have a bit of criticism of Western metrics and propaganda? It will always be the same. Russia is corrupt and bad. Ukraine is nice and the son we all wish we had.
  • Sound great but they are wrong!!!
    ↪BC
    Interesting.

    Here goes one from Mishima: German philosophy lacks a valve scape.

    I read that quote in one of their essays - or novels, I can't remember quite well - about the post-nuclear attack on Japan.

    Basically, Mishima argued that Japan was wrong to be very influenced by German philosophy. Although they are very important for the development of human knowledge, they lack praxis and that's why they lost WWII against more practical nations.

    Now, I guess that quote should be included in "false-sounding truthhoods"
  • There is No Such Thing as Freedom
    ↪Punshhh
    Thank you for your kindness, Punshhh.

    Although if you start a thread, unless you find some like minded people to respond, it often stalls as the majority of posters tend to lose interest. — Punshhh

    That's precisely what worries me the most. A large number of users lost interest in both philosophy and religion but they spend a lot of time and energy discussing about Trump.

    I started some threads about these topics in the past, and they did get a brief attention. After one or two weeks, they disappeared in the deepness pages of the forum.

    I remember specifically this one: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13200/why-does-religion-condemn-suicide

    It was a very interesting thread, focusing on the differences between religions about suicide.

    It ended up in a debate on what would have happened if Hitler killed himself before the Third Reich... :roll:
  • There is No Such Thing as Freedom
    Thanks, Javi. — Alkis Piskas

    :up:

    To achieve a state in which he/she is free of obstacles. When they achieve this state they are entirely free of obstacles and no less free than they were before they began meditating. A state of samadhi is entirely free of obstacles.

    So stillness is entirely free of obstacles and therefore entirely free.     — Punshhh

    I like your argument. It reminds me of Nirvana, but I don't want to mix or confuse your points.

    The translation of Nirvana into English is literally 'liberation' or 'freedom' and it is the state of mind that we achieve when we get rid of the disturbing mental elements. I think it goes the same way as your example.
    Generally, most of the Buddhist or Hinduism disciplines and practices want to achieve exactly that: freedom of mind obstacles.

    You are a brave person. I normally avoid bringing up that kind of stuff in this medium! — Alkis Piskas

    Me too. I am scared of bringing these topics here and getting rejected - or even disrespected - because East philosophy, religion and culture are not really appreciated here... :confused:

    This is why I miss some users as @T Clark. He was very committed with East thought and he even started a Tao thread where we exchanged views and opinions for months...
  • There is No Such Thing as Freedom
    ↪Alkis Piskas
    Very good points, Alkis. Hats off to your argument. :up:
  • Absolute nothingness is only impossible from the perspective of something
    Because I care about philosophy, and would like to see it done well. — Banno

    Oh, Banno. That's very cute. :flower:

    We know you care a lot and some noobs (myself included) learn reading your threads and comments... our discussion on sense and sensibilia was awesome.

    Cheers, and protect yourself when dingoes are closer!
  • Currently Reading
    The Disoriented, Amin Maalouf. — javi2541997

    8,5/10

    Excellent novel. It surprised me the big differences between the different Arab countries. From Egypt to Lebanon. A good plot constructed with despair and a sense of drama because of the bad luck of living in the wrong time at the wrong moment. I admit that I was very ignorant regarding Arab culture, but this book just opened my eyes.

    Life Is Elsewhere, Milan Kundera.

    It is my first time reading Kundera. Let's see...
  • Manifest Destiny Syndrome
    ↪Jamal
    I agree. Violent video games might be a dangerous hobby for teenagers because they contribute to making them more used to violence, but as you said here:

    in this case the American circumstance of a gun culture — Jamal

    This is the main issue, and I guess @Steven P Clum didn't consider it. He is surprised because the FBI doesn't take into account the eventual danger of playing Grand Theft Auto, but he is (paradoxically) used to a very violent culture such as the possibility of holding and purchasing guns without control. Those video games are just a replication of real life in some parts of the USA.
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    What’s the failure? — schopenhauer1

    I guess @Punshhh is actually referring to how religion and the lack of the effort to understand each other split two communities. Our failure in the West - our governments - and their failure in the East - their radical religious groups - is not finding a reason to maintain or share common ideas.

    There have always been conflicts between us and them during the centuries: since Crusades to the current situation. And, each of them have a common cause: the lack of respecting each side and the failure of not understanding the position in the Middle East.
  • The Great Controversy
    ↪Benkei
    :up:

    The only problem with Dostoevsky is that the characters in his major works are always in the wrong place at the wrong moment. :lol:
  • Nietzsche is the Only Important Philosopher
    It surprised me a bit that, in this very interesting and informative thread, none of the participants addressed Dostoevsky to the discussion. The Russian writer was one of the main inspirations in Nietzsche's philosophy. The latter even states: "the only psychologist from whom I had something to learn ... among the most beautiful strokes of fortune in my life"

    Only Ciceronianous mentioned Dostoevsky, but just to wonder whether he is a Philosopher or not.

    Well, I don't know to what extent we can consider the works of Dostoevsky with philosophical content, but his works and characters (Karamazov, Raskolnikov, Svidrigáilov, etc) have influenced the post philosophers on realism, existentialism and pessimism, etc. :flower:
  • Manifest Destiny Syndrome
    The implications of violent video games are grossly underestimated. Homicides resulting from violent video games should be chronicled and accounted for within the FBI’s Unified Crime Reporting. So much idle time...so little introspection. Your thoughts? — Steven P Clum

    It doesn't follow the main cause of homicides at all. Blaming video-games is a 'smokescreen' of the real problem here: the easy access to weapons.

    You know, violent video games exist worldwide, but curiously, the shootings in schools happen on a large scale in the USA. The shootings or homicides in the USA (note: I use this country as an example because you addressed the FBI, so I guess you are American), are not mainly caused because a teenager plays Grand Theft Auto but by the habit of being surrounded by weapons.

    In some parts of the world, we understand that Call of Duty is fictional, and even most of the weapons don't even exist in our countries. But it is crazy how you can purchase a Glock as well as if you buy some yogurt or beer. Can you see the problem now?

    According to the point of 'violent games leading people to act violently', watching films like a clockwork orange, would do the same effect. Right?
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    Yes this is the group I was referring to. The Jewish people as a whole, an ethno-religious group. If I were referring to the aggressors in Israel I would likely say Zionist, or Netanyahu’s government. — Punshhh

    :up:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    ↪Punshhh
    Yes, but if we refer to the diaspora of the Jews across the world, we are talking about the ethno-religious group, integrated with people who are not necessarily agree with the war. Yet, if we want to refer to them as the perpetrators of the genocide in Gaza, I guess it is more suitable to say 'Zionists', because this is their political and military faction.

    Another example: Hezbollah. This political and military faction represents an exclusive group of people, but not all the Muslims nor Lebanese citizens.
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    ↪neomac
    I agree. But, whilst 'Jews' is the concept of referring to the ethno-religious group, 'Zionist' is the political movement or faction that is committing the atrocities in Gaza. I think the latter is more - let's say - suitable to refer to them.
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    When I speak of these people, how would I refer to them without using the word Jew? — Punshhh

    Zionists
  • What would Aristotle say to Plato if Plato told him he's in the cave?
    Aristotle: [Your answer] — dani

    I think Aristotle might say to Plato: Do you mind that I am stuck in a cave dealing with the shadow of the forms? Well, that's a universal negative preposition. Not all men who are stuck in a cave deal with the shadow of the forms. No S is P. Etc.

    I guess he would have answered with a syllogism. :grin:
  • Currently Reading
    The Disoriented, Amin Maalouf.
  • The Last Word
    find any topic in Wikipedia, in English. — Sir2u

    Barbastro

    In the main article, click on the first link that is not Italic. — Sir2u

    Aragonese language

    By the time you have reached the seventh or eighth article you should be looking at something to do with philosophy. — Sir2u

    Linguistics


    You were right! Jesus! Are you a wizard? Do you know more tricks?
  • Fear of living and not living at all. . .
    ↪Nils Loc
    I agree. A very nice answer with deep thoughts... It makes me rethink what I wrote previously. :up:
  • Fear of living and not living at all. . .
    We become world weary when physical/mental maladaptation/dysfunction make daily requirements of living monotonous and uncomfortable/painful.

    Give Bryan Johnson a disease, or other intractable mental or material difficulty, and he may revise his desire to live a long life.     — Nils Loc

    Good points. It reminds me of ethical suicide, or specifically speaking, euthanasia. But I am not sure if you are actually thinking about this. I even think that, when time passes by, there are less arguments about living a long life.

    Since death as a total cessation consciousness (nothing) is not an experience, — Nils Loc

    I disagree with this. Death is an experience. We don't discover if we can have consciousness in whether we experience the act or die or not. Science will tell us about the future. For example: when someone is killing himself, he is literally experiencing death because he has this purpose and the suicidalis committing it. What we don't have awareness at all is about what happens afterwards. When the dark pit of death finally catches us...
  • The Last Word
    What a nerve! — unenlightened

    Jaja :rofl:

    ↪Sir2u
    I will be honest, but don't laugh at my stupidity.


    I discovered this thread randomly. Well, I was checking the threads posted by Hanover, honestly. I put a bookmark on thinking about posting something. If you go to Wikipedia, you can see an option called 'Random', where the logo of a dice appears. I clicked and then appeared an article about a skull, but it was in Spanish. I switched the page to the English version, and then I read 'supratrochelar' in the picture.


    I know I do many weird things...
  • The Last Word
    Supratrochelar.
  • What are you listening to right now?
    A beautiful rainy and cloudy morning in Madrid.

  • The purest artistic side of the sunset
    I have only three before my favourite spring twilights begin. — Vera Mont

    So, it seems spring is your favorite season!

    I see winter and autumn as perfect for poetry and literature. It is just my opinion, but its sense of nostalgia, cold, rainy days, etc. motivates me more than the endless sunny summer days…
  • The purest artistic side of the sunset
    Of course it is. The same sun's rays hit different parts of the earth at different angles and intensities at every minute as the Earth orbits and rotates, while the atmospheric conditions also keep changing. — Vera Mont

    Well, Vera, thank you for the scientific explanation. But I was actually referring to the artistic side. When I walk in the park (it is the path I use every day during the year, as well as public transport) I notice the sun is more vivid. It is orange instead of ochre or golden. I miss that when I am walking back home, my loyal shadow follows me. Although January is cold and cloudy, we tend to have sunny days (we never get into winter that deeply as Sweden or Canada), and then I notice the sun is shiner than before, exactly because of what you explained. I have to wait nine or ten months to see the ochre-coloured sun again...
  • On Fosse's Nobel lecture: 'A Silent Language'
    Coincidentally, this happened a few hours actually. The conversation happened to include a random person my grandparents knew, and they mentioned that he killed himself. Now, when I say casually, I don't mean that people talk about it flippantly in cases regarding actual suicides. When actual suicides are mentioned, they are mentioned in either a serious or neutral tone. — Ø implies everything

    Thank you for this information. It is something that helps me to understand Fosse a bit more. I think I am getting closer to Norwegian culture. Fosse uses a neutral tone when a character decides to kill himself. He doesn't use an overreacted nor gimmicky message. He only expresses and accepts suicide because he understands it is a legitimized way of ending life. What you explained reminds me of Fosse, and it makes me jealous of a culture (or sociology) which is neutral towards this topic.

    For example: Occasionally, my family has also mentioned a person who killed himself in the past, but my grandparents expressed themselves in a quiet voice, saying: Yes, Mister X, after ending up in bankruptcy, he hung himself... What a pity, and why does this happen at all?
    They express this topic with a lot of affliction. They are not neutral, they just feel a lot of sorrow for a suicidal deceased. It makes me sad, because I think they have a fear of death due to the experience of a Catholic education.


    As for romanticizing or legitimizing suicide, I would wager that Norway does it more than e.g. the U.S. First of all, Norway is quite secular, so that's a factor demonizing/stimgatizing suicide almost entirely removed. — Ø implies everything

    Yes, being a secular is so damn important. Being raised and born in a country which suffered from having an abusive religious educational system, can get me into a false statement where my death needs the approval of the rest or God. It is very hard to find someone here who accepts suicide. I commented that I wasn't fearful of this matter one day, and my parents went crazy. They said I needed a therapist urgently.

    Well, although suicide has been spontaneously increased in Spain, the victims are still invisible, and it makes me mad. Even when someone is a young person, this topic gets more twisted into explanation, because most people think: Why are you thinking this? Are you OK? Come on, you are young, and you have a lot of time and experience to live... Etc. It makes me sick, they don't understand life (nor death).

    But suicide in general is topic often joked about with younger people in Norway (millenials & Gen Z), but I reckon this more flippant attitude to the topic is generally more prevalent with younger people around the world, not just in Norway. — Ø implies everything

    I agree.

    Maybe I am just projecting, but when the topic comes up, it seems like people have a face of "too bad they couldn't resist", or something like that. — Ø implies everything

    Exactly, they [the people] think we were not able to resist. But exactly to what? And they consider our action as a loss... But what do we lose at all?

    Personally, I have some suicidal ideations (though no suicidal thoughts), and as a result, I don't find cases of suicide (regardless of how well the person seemed to be) shocking. — Ø implies everything

    Me too, and I usually felt alone because I never found a person of my age (I am of the millennial generation) thinking in a way like I do... And, people tended to isolate me obviously, because we are young and there is no time to think about this! Since I read Mishima, I have seen suicide as an idealised-beautiful ending. Furthermore, Fosse helps me to see it even clearer.
  • On Fosse's Nobel lecture: 'A Silent Language'
    ↪Lionino
    Thanks for your answer and point, Lionino. Lesson learned. I fully recommend this thread to you. I enjoyed discussing the meaning of silence, 'pauses' and suicide with @Metaphysician Undercover. It is a worthy thread, and I am not saying this because it is mine...
  • On Fosse's Nobel lecture: 'A Silent Language'
    ↪Ø implies everything


    It has passed twenty days since I answered you in this thread. I was starting to read Fosse's trilogien. This book was translated by a Norwegian-Spanish girl (Cristina Gómez Baggethum), so I guess it suits what Fosse wants to express in his writings. I was thinking of starting a new thread related to him and his sense of melancholia and suicide, but since you posted the answer here, I think I will keep posting in this thread my concerns about Fosse. I will try to explain myself the best I can. Sorry if you don't understand me because I am a non-native speaker and my grammar is somehow limp.

    After reading the first novel of Fosse I ended with these thoughts:

    Silence is key in his literature. But this noun or verb only appears in delicate moments. For example: a suicide or death. Fosse does not state: X character dies because of hara-kiri. He beautifully writes: she hears the waves crashing and she feels the rain against her hair, against her face, and then she goes into the waves and everything cold and hot, the whole sea is Asle and she goes deeper and then Asle surrounds her completely, just like the night they first talked, and everything is Asle and Alida and then the waves cover Alida and goes into the waves, keeps going, goes deeper and deeper into the waves and then a wave covers her gray hair.

    The last paragraph describes a silent suicide. It made me cry, because it is perfectly written, and I think I somehow understand Fosse. Since you are Norwegian like him, I wonder how suicide is treated and seen in Norwegian society. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to be pretty different from the Japanese. Your conception seems to be romantic, legitimized and aesthetic. Maybe this is just the author's literature and suicide is a very serious issue in Norway.
    Here in Spain, it is a taboo topic and nobody speaks about it. Which is not the same as Fosse, who speaks about the topic but with silent and pauses.

    Fosse uses pauses with the aim of replicating them in Norwegian theater. I don't have a big background on this matter because I haven't read his plays yet. I will gain more knowledge in the future because he is an excellent writer, and I will keep reading him. He also states: 'For me, writing is a kind of listening. I don't know what I'm listening for, but I'm listening'
  • The purest artistic side of the sunset
    I took this photo yesterday evening in the park where I usually walk. Personally, I feel the winter sun is different from the autumn sun.

    Let me explain myself better: the sun is obviously the same always. However, I sense that its sunlight rays and shadows on the street are not the same. Madrid is cloudier in January than in October, November, and December. For this reason, I hardly see the ochre-colored reflections in the windows or showcases.

    I was lucky to see the sun setting yesterday because it is usually covered by the clouds...

    ord5le9d1jxfbgca.jpg
  • Cardinality of infinite sets
    Agent Smith recently posted — alan1000

    Do you mean his soul or spirit?

    Agent Smith was banned like a year ago…
  • Reasons for believing in the permanence of the soul?
    Haha I never denied it! — Lionino

    Jajajaja una leche!
  • Reasons for believing in the permanence of the soul?
    French is Latin, but aged. — Lionino

    Finally! You just admitted French is Latin. :smile:
  • Reasons for believing in the permanence of the soul?
    You shouldn't, because French is English's mama. — Lionino

    And the granny? Latin. :snicker:
    Or... West Germanic, in the Indo-European language family?
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