It is true that Kamala's nomination was awful, and everything happened very fast. But it was that, or continuing with Biden, and the result would have been even worse, honestly.

I think it is important to do self-criticism, but on the other hand, I think we should look at what the people really have as values. They voted against a system. Donald Trump is charged with multiple felonies, but surprisingly, people decided to believe that the problem is the judiciary system and not him. Let's see what happens in the next four years. Time passed by more quickly than we thought. But, in my opinion, the key would be to switch the mindset of the people and help them to believe and respect the system again.

I've seen plenty of secular bigotry and xenephobia here. — Swanty

I don't think it is actually secular bigotry. It is just that we are in a philosophy forum, and philosophy itself has always confronted religion.

There are threads on Christianity. I can't remember if there is any regarding Islam. I took part in them with my deepest respectful behaviour. I even discovered Kazantzakis thanks to Alkis Piskas. My image of Jesus changed to better, but religion still has complex features to my understanding. If you want to start a thread about a religious topic, I don't think you would have issues. But be open to receiving criticism!

We had some people here (in the Philosophy Forum) who argued that only stupids can vote for Donald Trump. I told them that though I am an immigrant myself, I would never call stupid someone who voted for him. — Eros1982

The U.S. elections seemed to be an IQ test, and look at the results. Now it depends on the way each of us sees it. Are we entitled to call more than 73 million voters crackpots? There are more voters for Trump than citizens in my country.

Within those 73 million voters, there are women, Latinos, and probably LGTBQ too. What if those voted against Kamala because of a sexist bias? 

Latinos are very sexist; that's 100% accurate. 

I see that feminism is not strong enough as it is in Europe.

I will not understand if Trump obtained some LGTBIQ votes. That would be reckless and crazy, but are they stupid? No, I don't think so.

What I always understood enfant terrible as this: One whose startlingly unconventional behavior, work, or thought embarrasses or disturbs others.

It is up to each of us to interpret whether it is good or bad. :smile:

If Donald Trump is a metaphor for something, what is that something? I mean to you, — frank

Good question.

I would say Trump is a metaphor for Enfant terrible, but in an American context.

It is interesting to read your testimony because the brief information that arrived here told basically otherwise. Republicans—or Trump supporters, specifically—were the ones who went against the other. We didn't have a great live follow-up American election because the press was covering the flood disasters in Valencia. But most of the time it seemed that Democrats were labelled as chill people who voted against a liar and felon.

But most of all the behavior of his opposition pushed me to support him. — NOS4A2

It is difficult to experience and perceive all of that when I don't live in the USA. Do you imply that their opponents play dirty to poisoning the people? I thought the main point of voting for Trump was economic features, but I wasn't aware that the attitude of Democrats was also a reason.

In what thread did this happen? — ssu

The mods already warned him in this thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15408/rules/latest/comment

But Lionino couldn't control himself, and I will miss him. I had good and interesting exchanges. It is difficult to meet an Iberian neighbour on the Internet, by the way.

American education system delivers yet again — Banno

"Just watch, once Trump increases the price of all imported goods on the consumer end, inflation will go down. That’s math or something. I think.”

Another aspect of the American education system that will be able to hold strong under Trump is their time honoured tradition of school shootings.

:rofl:

Latino sexism maybe. — frank

It was sexism, frank, indeed. But it is very surprising when Latino countries such as Argentina had Cristina Kirchner or Eva Perón; in Honduras, Xiomara Castro is the President, etc. It is mind-blowing that they prefer to vote for a man who is clearly against Hispanic culture rather than a woman. As I said yesterday, I didn't think the sexism was that severe.

It seemed clear to me at least a year out. — AmadeusD

Now it seems that 'It seemed clear to most people at least a year out' since he won Pennsylvania twelve hours ago.  :roll:

A defeat for the US establishment is a win for the rest of the world. — Tzeentch

Nah, hold your machiavellian ass. If you truly think they will get destroyed by their own idiosyncrasy, well, that is unlikely to happen.

It is official. He just won Wisconsin.

Ready for Trump 2.0.?

@NOS4A2, how do you feel right now after defending him for four straight years?

At least last time he visited my country where he met Putin, so he know where my country is. — ssu

:lol:

That's a relief. I believe he doesn't know to pin the Iberian Peninsula in an European map, but he filtered with Morocco back in the day... so we have to be cautious from now on.

Oh, wait. My country will do anything—as always—and they will keep having Rota and Morón bases.

What's next for us?

• EU military as the highest priority
• EU military as the highest priority
• EU military as the highest priority
• EU military as the highest priority
• EU military as the highest priority

The Luxembourg prime minister also said he wants a permanent seat for the EU on the UN Security Council.

It is now or never, mates. We can't trust Trump's behaviour towards European interests. It is time to stay together more than ever, leaving aside our differences. No more cracks among us.

Dude took all the swing states. Wtf? — frank

Yeah, it is crazy. Surprisingly, he beat the odds.

I would not call it misogyny. It is just that most of your fellow compatriots might not feel good—or comfortable—about having a woman in the White House, as well as that we don't feel comfortable if we turn into a republic. These factors tend to be intrinsic in the soul and mindset of every nation more than we thought.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 though. — Baden

True! And still...

But I don't understand why people think Trump does anything for them. — Manuel

The average American doesn't want to be ruled by a woman. I never expected their sexism to be that severe.

My point is that democracy isn't in danger... it's in some ways already dead. And people need to realize this in order to rebuild it. — Christoffer

I agree. But a large number of Americans think otherwise. I was watching the news, and experts on this matter said Trump supporters really believe that if Kamala wins, American democracy and security are in danger, when they are already flawed, as are most of the Western countries. Maybe spreading fear in the eventual lack of national security and individual freedom is a successful political strategy. I can't imagine the individual rights and freedom of people like Elon Musk and WASP families at risk, but surprisingly, millions of voters do.

Actually, why does anyone ever think that their elected president is going to fix their life? — Christoffer

They do not vote wishing their lives would be fixed but saved. The political slogans have mottos such as 'democracy is in danger' 'save America', 'Israel or Palestine existence', and the delicate topic of abortion and pro-life. One side of the voters thinks that if their opponents win, their lives are at risk. So do the others otherwise.

Roevember is here! :fire: :party: :hearts: — 180 Proof

Are you nervous?

Do you think there will be surprises in the so-called swing states?

This is a case where blaming climate change exclusively is a problem. — frank

Consider, please, that I don't blame climate change exclusively. But I disagree with "Agree-to-Disagree" on the way he approached Valencia's floods. I think the latter is a good example of how we could blame climate change mostly. I don't get why it is hard to accept. I wanted to share the charts and the last-week catastrophe because I thought it could be seen as a good example of climate change. The 2020 chart said that Valencia had a risk of increasing the sea level by 10% by floods, and it is astonishing how that graphic nailed what would happen four years later. That's all.

Is it something the EU would have to address? — frank

Absolutely. Firstly, because the EU is the only competent authority to address agriculture and farming, and secondly, it is a big problem that affects all EU zone countries equally.
I remember there was a huge strike of farmers in Spain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, etc. because of the European bureaucracy and the great amount of taxes they needed to pay. But they turn against the wrong authority. Most of the farmers were protesting in the doors of the Ministry of Agriculture in Madrid, and barely a group of them went to Brussels. I think only a few are really aware of the power of the EU in this issue. 

The next generation could come up with some genius way to remove CO2 from the atmosphere. — frank

I am optimistic about the present and future generations of people. 81% of Spaniards consider climate change, desertification, and CO2 serious issues, and we want to change the situation to better and live in a less polluted country. But I wonder whether we approached this issue too late or not. :meh:

Yes, frank, I am fully aware of the countless things that the stupid politicians and businessmen did in my country for the last decades. They overexploded farms and soil, reducing lagoons, riverbanks, and springs to zero. This is the problem and effects that can be seen in Andalucía and most of the south of the peninsula. I could say that it was motivated by human factors rather than weather adverse situations.

Nonetheless, this is part of the past. Farming and agriculture are mainly managed by the European Union. Yet Andalucian folks experience records of high temperatures each year. I think having 47°C in summer in Cordoba is a very serious thing that shows a constant change in our climate, thus climate change.

On the other hand, it would be unfair to say that Galicia or Aragón had poor agriculture practices, and yet they are also experiencing an important drought. My idea is that desertification in Spain is caused by climate change, but sadly, human reckless management is also guilty. 

Barcelona, which is part of Catalonia, also has a red dot on the map. Both Valencia and Barcelona are on the coast of the Balearic Sea. I couldn't find flood frequency data for Valencia but I did find flood frequency data for Catalonia. — Agree-to-Disagree

I was talking about Valencia, not Barcelona. Clever guy, trying to switch the topic when you feel trapped in your own views. Fine, let's talk about Catalunya and its desertification. But I think it is not worthy to keep up with this, because you would also say that the desertification in Barcelona (they are literally run of water in summer) is not a big deal, and the scientists of the European Commission and the Catalunya government are not entitled to point to climate change for that reason.

The climate is too complex for simple analysis. That's all I meant. — frank

Fair enough. I agree.

Again, why you bother with climate-denying imbeciles is a mystery. — Mikie

I know. I know. I shouldn't have answered again. But I wanted to try using 'impartial' and 'non-tax-funded climate researchers' to provide a basic fact that climate change is clearly deteriorating, deserting, shaping, and destroying some parts of my country. Although weather studies and climate charts are complex, I personally believe that it is so damn clear the evolution in each graph. Jesus is like denying real life.

The evidence is overwhelming, — Mikie

Exactly.

Don't conclude climate change just because you can't think of anything else. — frank

I'm still waiting for answers on why the weather and even the surface and structure of my country have drastically changed in the past decades. As I said before, maybe climate change is not the only issue, but it is obvious that it is a feature that accelerates natural disasters.

Well, I can't think of another main reason. Most of the studies and articles point to climate change as the cause of why Spain is becoming a desert and summer accelerates desertification. Check out this amazing web page by the government of The Netherlands (@Agree-to-Disagree would say they are wrong too, and we can't trust Dutch offices when they are one of the most advanced nations in the world :lol: ).

Most of the graphics and studies show an increment in high temperatures and more frequency of extreme events. The red dots are high probability or natural disasters. Valencia has a red dot.

Large changes in flood frequency mean that what is an extreme event today may become the norm by the end of the century in some locations. The frequency of coastal flooding events is estimated (Fig. 4) to increase by more than a factor of 10 in many European locations, and by a factor of more than 100 or even 1000 in some locations during the 21st century, depending on the emissions scenario.

What are the climate change impacts in Spain?



That chart was published in 2020, and look at the mess and disaster of the past week. Just four years later. They predicted it, and they nailed it. Do you still have doubts? @Agree-to-Disagree

I see that election campaigns bring out the creative spirit of voters. :smile:

First, glad you were not washed away in the great flood. Floods cause such great loss. "Come hell (heat) or high water" as the saying goes. — BC

Thanks for your concern, friend. Appreciate it. Everything seems to be up again normally, but the number of deaths is still shocking for most of us. :broken:

Well, coming back to the topic...

The term "legal studies" isn't very clear to me. When I think of 'lawyers' I think of 'law school' and 'law degrees'. There are people who train to do 'legal work' for lawyers, but who are not members of the profession as such. Don't know. — BC

Exactly. That's what I thought too. To become a lawyer, it is obvious that someone needs a law degree. But the law degree itself is useful and goes beyond being just a lawyer. Firstly, judges and prosecutors should be included in 'legal studies' as well, but there is also a bubble (chart) saying public administration. Where should judges and prosecutors be located then?
On the other hand, I wonder what the requirement is to represent the state of the U.S.A. legally regarding legal international affairs or conflicts. We have a special bureau called 'Abogados del Estado' (State of Spain Lawyers). They are considered part of the public administration and not lawyers per se. I remember that Spain and the USA had a trial on the civil rights of a boat*. Spain was represented by Abogados del Estado on American soil. But who represented American sovereignty? I guess not a random lawyer but a legal public expert from the Bureau of Justice.

*Plot twist: We won the trial. It was a big surprise here because we didn't expect to win in the U.S. Supreme Court.

That chart surprised me for two reasons:
 
1) Why does psychology have negative return on investment? I thought psychology was very important in the USA and since the American government doesn't provide medical attendance with taxation but with insurance, it surprised me that it is in negative. Nursing and health professions return on investment is $195K. Why is psychology not located in the latter?
 
2) Why are legal studies separated from public administration and social services? I would put them all inside the bubble of social sciences. Law is considered a degree of social science and public administration here.

November 2.

Fifty nine days remain until
the end of the year.
The sun is set on the horizon
and I remember Valencia.
Sweeter grapes than the ones
of my kitchen I can’t imagine of.
I got them from a poet from Paiporta.
He said—I now feel nostalgia for him—
But he said grapes like these are only
grown near Albufera.
I put my coat on
because it is cold outside.
I start to walk until I arrive at the sunset,
remembering Valencia and
the poet from Paiporta.
 

Afterlives by Abdulrazak Gurnah.

African literature is unique and pure. Gurnah only focuses on Tanzania and Zanzibar, because these are the places where he was born and raised before moving to London.
I read 'Paradise' the last year and it was outstanding. What I've read thus far, seems to have the same narrative line. A group of helpless young people who had the bad (or good) luck—depending on how we interpret it—of experiencing the beginning of African decolonisation.

I always recommend reading Gurnah. A deserved Nobel laureate and a nice person.

My point is that "scientists" are not justified in saying that climate change made the 2024 Spanish floods worse. — Agree-to-Disagree

We are having records of high temperatures in summer and records of floods in autumn each year. Check it out, and you will see. If climate change is not making the weather worse and adverse here, what is the main cause then? By the way, I guess you could accept that climate change is a factor to take on regarding the last and coming floods. People around Valencia were interviewed—not scientists—and they said: We are used to floods in Valencia, but we can’t remember of a worse example than this year. It seems like each year the floods are more violent and destructive than the previous. They are literally experiencing the consequences of climate change.

What is your point of sharing the history and dates of Valencia's floods? We are already aware of the continuous floods in that area each year. It seems like you claim that the DANA always happened and was not caused by climate change.

My point goes deeper than this. Before the reference to Valencia natural disaster, you claimed that some folks—yourself included—don't take climate change seriously because of the behaviour of some tax-funded people and organisations. I agree. Maybe they are not facing the issue correctly. Then, I shared the 'before and after' picture of the Albufera. I think it is clear the impact of adverse weather in that region. Whether COP29 is effective or not, it is not relevant to the fact and evidence that climate change has changed the structure and surface of my country. First the 1957 Valencia catastrophe and now these floods. Did you know that because of this, the government has to build literally new roads and rails to Madrid? I think we have to take climate change seriously, at least here.

They’ll keep their heads in the sand till the bitter end. — Mikie

:up:

That's precisely what surprises me the most. Climate change deniers can suffer the consequences of adverse weather, but they seem to not care anyway. If they are trapped in a garage flooded to the top they would think: "Well, this just happens. It is normal. I am just having bad luck today."

People might start taking climate change more seriously if climate scientists "walked the walk", and didn't just "talk the talk". — Agree-to-Disagree

Shouldn't we take climate change more seriously from now on after the floods in Valencia (Spain)? I don't know where you are from, but I hope the politicians—and other responsables—of my country might start to take this crisis—because climate change is a big crisis—more seriously. Everything is destroyed; more than 160 people died. I can't accept an argument that this was a normal natural disaster. After experiencing the floods, someone has to be very mad to keep denying climate change, at least in the context and reality of Spain. Now it is time to convince people around the globe. Please don't focus only on tax-funded organisations or politicians. There are more out there who work with honesty and want to avoid the impacts of DANA, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.

Israelis celebrating Spain flood death toll…

[/img]

If we were not members of NATO, we would already have been bombed by spangled-minded Netanyahu; that’s a given.

Hey, @BitconnectCarlos. Look at the representatives of the nice and helpless nation of Israel. Because we should have pity on them! Otherwise, we deserve to be punished by ‘karma’ and God’s mercy and heaven, etc., and the rest of nonexistent things, but what could we expect from an occupier and an artificial nation like Israel? But hey, Carlos, didn’t you say that they are cool people, but they are just a threatened nation or something? What do you say now? Tit for tat, right? If they cheer about the deaths of Spain floods, I will cheer when a Lebanese or Gaza brother takes Netanyahu or another Israeli hateful ass out, right? Do you understand my thoughts on that artificial country now? Because it seems we only have to be empathetic with Jews.

As I always say to Jehovah's Witnesses when they ring my home: show me your Crocoduck if you truly want to brainwash me!

It is cool, indeed. But if you gaze at the eyes of the women in each painting, it is very clear that it was AI-made. I wonder what would happen if we applied that tool to Dalí's paintings. It would be very interesting to see and the closest point to experiencing a trip without drugs.

I would hope if and when there is anything substantial to report, then Jamal will notify TPF members. — Amity

Yes, absolutely. You—and the rest of TPF members—will be notified when there is a substantial report. But I thought it was a good idea to provide the link to Discord to all of them who could be interested in the discussion on the other platform.

We have now been upgraded to the medium plan, so this shouldn't happen again. — Jamal

Great! Thanks! :up: