Although well intentioned, our current social distancing policies are having an opposite effect; the virus is only getting worse, not better. We are fast approaching a point of no return. — Roger Gregoire
Social distancing is the reason why things aren't worse than they are. The reason why the situation is so bad is because people have been flouting social distancing regulations. — TheMadFool
HiMadFool, I agree that we need more and better social distancing of our vulnerable population. BUT social distancing the healthy population is counter productive and if we keep it up, then we are all doomed. To better understand this point, read the analogy that I gave. — Roger Gregoire
A couple of things. First the current mutations are covered quite nicely by the vaccines. Secondly, the difference in hospitalization rate between those over 80 and those between 40 and 79 is about 3 to 1. So younger folks are not as "immune" as your analogies (?) imply. At the same time, the total number of those 40 to 79 is much higher (140 million vs 10 million). — LuckyR
Basically we are going to get to herd immunity. You get there through a combo of exposure to illness and vaccination. — LuckyR
IIn the case of covid, the point of social distancing is to slow down the infection rate, so that the medical system doesn't collapse.But if we keep these people, or continue to keep and hide away our healthy (those that are immune via infection (with healthy immune systems) or via vaccination) socially isolated, then we have accomplished nothing. — Roger Gregoire
In the case of covid, the point of social distancing is to slow down the infection rate, so that the medical system doesn't collapse. — baker
Secondly, who exactly are "the healthy"? If you look at obesity and diabetes rates (two major risks for covid complications), the healthy are actually a relatively small group. — baker
I know, I know… your first thought after reading this title is “Wow Roger, now you’ve really lost your mind!”. But humor me a bit and take a look at this analogy first — Roger Gregoire
We fail to recognize that intentionally holding the healthy population (those with strong immune systems) on this planet from an infection means that the infection will grow and mutate unabated.
Government experts are quick to reject those that say we should allow the healthy cars to speed up and run free (i.e., implement “strategic herd immunity”) as being misinformed quacks — Roger Gregoire
And then infect the vulnerable.But I suspect most school age kids and young adults are healthy enough to take off their masks and immediately begin large scale socialization (activities). — Roger Gregoire
But I suspect most school age kids and young adults are healthy enough to take off their masks and immediately begin large scale socialization (activities). — Roger Gregoire
And then infect the vulnerable. — baker
In South London, during a previous time in between lockdowns, I saw on many occasions groups of school pupils, and they looked about 16 years old at least, crowding onto busses and inside shops and not a mask in sight. At this time, which was before the time of the new strain of the virus, so many people were wondering why the infection rate was rising tremendously and I believe this was a large part of the problem.
But of course, it would be wrong to just blame the school children. Also, a lot of adults were not sticking to rules and I also believe that people having to live in overcrowded living conditions was and still is a stumbling block in enabling people to socially distance to bringing the infection rate down properly. — Jack Cummins
...and enough of us will flout the rules to keep the population growing. — unenlightened
Unfortunately other than age trends, it is difficult to categorize immune system strength before illness. I agree with you about the recovered and the vaccinated, scientifically, but psychologically it would lead to a two tiered system in a situation that is already tribalistic, so I agree that it is more practical to continue as we are doing until hospitalization numbers drop. — LuckyR
Several things: first, we don't need to "kill" viruses, we just need to deprive them of hosts.Thus viruses don't need to be "attack"ed. That's the value of social distancing. — LuckyR
Your first statement is self-contradictory, since the "vulnerable" population IS the "healthy" population. — LuckyR
SophistiCat, it seems that you view healthy people (those with strong immune systems) more as "spreaders" of the virus than as "removers" of the virus — Roger Gregoire
Vulnerable means: can get the disease. Invulnerable is synonymous with immune, the vaccinated plus the recovered. — LuckyR
Social distancing is a crutch while we wait for the vaccine to solve the problem, so neither of us thinks it is the solution. — LuckyR
SophistiCat, it seems that you view healthy people (those with strong immune systems) more as "spreaders" of the virus than as "removers" of the virus. — Roger Gregoire
People aren't "removers" of the virus. — SophistiCat
Once it is out of its host, a virus dies on its own if it doesn't find a new host, which is nearly always. — SophistiCat
If a virus succeeds in infecting a new host, even someone who for whatever reason doesn't show symptoms (it's more complicated than just having a healthy immune system), that by definition means that the virus is reproducing - increasing the probability of its further transmission (asymptomatic carriers are infectious) and of new mutations arising. — SophistiCat
You need to stop thinking in terms of analogies and think about the real situation, which isn't so complicated that one cannot understand it otherwise. We are all, hopefully, familiar with the basics of the germ theory of disease. And educate yourself a little before pontificating on this topic. — SophistiCat
One matter which I think has not been addressed by policy makers is whether social distancing is really stopping the virus? In particular, today I heard of one person I know who has tested positive and she not been out or mixed with any other people in ages. She thinks that she must have contracted it through food delivered outside the door. So, it is questionable whether the virus is just about human transmission through contact with others or other sources, such as food. — Jack Cummins
At the heart of it all, there is just no possible end in sight. I plan to get the vaccine whenever I am able but felt so miserable reading in the news yesterday that the vaccine will not bring any end to social distancing. The news article even sugges ted that the vaccine program might be a bad thing because it might mean that people stop thinking that they need to distance any longer. With the current approach of policy makers it is hard to see any hope for a way out of the situation. Is it any wonder that people are feeling depressed and unwell mentally? — Jack Cummins
Don't healthy immune systems attack and kill invading viruses? — Roger Gregoire
For the most part, healthy immune systems don't replicate and spread the virus, ...they attack and kill it. — Roger Gregoire
No offense SophistiCat, but the purpose of the analogies is to put a rational perspective on this whole situation. Right now, the general public is being fed misinformation in the form of "fear mongering" which is only making a bad situation much, much worse. — Roger Gregoire
One matter which I think has not been addressed by policy makers is whether social distancing is really stopping the virus? — Jack Cummins
She thinks that she must have contracted it through food delivered outside the door. — Jack Cummins
I plan to get the vaccine whenever I am able but felt so miserable reading in the news yesterday that the vaccine will not bring any end to social distancing. — Jack Cummins
You are bone-ignorant about science and public policy, you can't formulate a sound argument to save your life, and yet you presume to advise experts and decision-makers. Normally I just ignore internet cranks, but I make an exception here, because bozos like you spread disinformation that does real harm. — SophistiCat
Just a piece of friendly advice here (if you wish to accept it)... be careful with the ad hominen attacks (the casting of insults). To many of us that value debate and discussion, when someone resorts to insults, it is an indicator of defeat; it is a big white flag; it means that they've lost the argument and they have nothing more rational to argue with. — Roger Gregoire
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