Besides the parts of your arguments which are demonstrably incorrect, which you did not even try to defend further, you've got "perhaps" and "think about it" to challenge decades of science and study. Your worldview is not based on logic and honesty as you claim, it's created through a unique interpretation which selectively acknowledges and emphasises pieces of information to create a particular narrative. When in doubt, assume whatever suits you, that's pretty much your argument summed up, we both know you can't back up your claims, that's why it's "perhaps" and such. — Judaka
You've got an excuse for everything, it's a whole conspiracy against suicide and the evidence or arguments don't matter because of "death anxiety". My last comment, you chose to address only what you thought could be ignored by "death anxiety" yet again, even though your main argument is demonstrably invalid and false. I don't know why you're intent on promoting suicide but I imagine it's a personal story. Anyway, I don't think you have anything left to do but insist on things you can't back up and dismiss facts with wishful thinking, I'm out. — Judaka
It is hard to grasp because it speaks against my personal experience. If I'm hungry, then I will eat. If I am in love with a person, then I will try my best to be with them. Reason being? Hunger and Love.
These are valid reasons to pursue my wants in my eyes. But according to you they aren't. And that's why I have asked you multiple times before, what would count as a valid reason?
If something feels good then it's only natural to want to pursue it just for the sake of it feeling good. Setting aside all arguments one can make about chasing feelings at the expense of others, etc. — DoppyTheElv
So you deny that there can be a reason to do anything and then go on to say that life needs a reason to continue which by implication means that death is the only option. This seems fallacious at worst and requiring justification at best. Or did I misunderstand? If so, sorry. — DoppyTheElv
ppeal to nature argument. Just because something is natural doesn’t make it good to follow. And I have already explained why not. As I said if you take it further then there is no reason to do anything at all. — Darkneos
It’s not. It just shows that death is the only option left. Life requires to a reason to exist, at least for people. We are past the point of being unquestioning animals. Yet there is no ultimate reason for existence or living. Reproduction is what live does but that doesn’t mean it should. Therefore there is and never will be a reason for living (that isn’t rooted in appeals to emotion or nature, AKA fallacies) making death the only logical choice. — Darkneos
I’ve already explained why pleasure is not a reason to live. — Darkneos
No it's not. It's an appeal to it feels good and there is no reason not to do it so it's perfectly logical to want to do it argument. And I said you didn't explain anything because I still don't see why there is no reason to do anything at all. — DoppyTheElv
The end note to your question is: People live life because it's worth it and it's simply fun. It's perfectly logical to me and seemingly to most people who are alive. You don't think it's a valid reason? Well, I'm afraid you're not going to convince very many people. — DoppyTheElv
If multiple people are telling you that you're in fact not explaining anything then you should probably look into it. — DoppyTheElv
It is. You are arguing it’s only natural to do so so it’s appeal to nature. I’ve already said why it’s not logical to want to do it. Stop repeating the same debunked arguments. Desire and emotion are not reasons for doing something, they are simple feelings that come and go. We choose to assign meanings to such things when in reality they don’t mean anything. Take away what we attach to them and they are pure sensations, not reasons for doing anything. — Darkneos
We choose to assign meanings to such things when in reality they don’t mean anything. Take away what we attach to them and they are pure sensations, not reasons for doing anything. — Darkneos
Both those points are false. Life is not worth it. Nor is it fun. It just is. There is no logic to doing something because it is fun. Why can’t people see that? Just because most people believe that doesn’t make it true or logical. — Darkneos
And simply asserting that doesn't make it so. Life may not be so enjoyable for you at the current moment. But I'm certainly enjoying it! Am I lying or broken?
People can't see it because it is not true. It makes no sense not to do what you like. In your view, I should just sit and wait for time to go by while I come home after a long day of school. Because apparently wanting to have fun doesn't count as a reason to play a game with my buddies. It doesn't compute to people who truly do get enjoyment out of the things they do. Perhaps you can't but that doesn't mean I can't either.
— Darkneos
I know I can’t expect to convince folks of this because they are too attached to life and can’t see clearly. — Darkneos
Again just because many people say something doesn’t make it true. I have already shown every argument for living to not be logical and rooted in fallacy yet people want to believe otherwise. — Darkneos
And that, I suppose, is the rationalization that allows you to be confident in your position despite the numerous advances against it in this thread. — DoppyTheElv
How convenient that the will to live is the obstacle to understanding you. I'm sorry to say then that indeed most of the population who enjoy life, no matter how good in philosophy they are, will simply not be as enlightened as you. Except for the ones who, sorry to bring this up despite to your request, are depressed. — DoppyTheElv
I like music and it makes me happy. There is nothing illogical about liking music being a sufficient reason to play my piano. This would change if you add a twist. If you play the piano, someone dies. Yes, then it's arguable about it being a good reason, but a reason could be there none the less.
You haven't argued anything in your responses to me man. You literally just say "it's not an reason" and then "I've argued why." — DoppyTheElv
You are trying to argue for life when the reasons of so many have been shown to be fallacious. — Darkneos
plenty of people do thinks they don’t like for years. Most jobs tend to be like that for the population as a whole. — Darkneos
I suppose it is so for some people, but I'm not sure it was a choice for them for as long as they can remember.However, the question "What is your reason for living?" is misleading, insofar as living is the default, and as such, there's no specific personal reason for it
— baker
Except it isn't the default. It's a choice. — Darkneos
There seems to be asymmetry that needs to be made explicit: we don't need a reason to live as much as we need one to die. — TheMadFool
No. I'm talking about actually being certain about one's sense of right and wrong. I'm talking about being certain that A is morally right, and that B is morally wrong.This isn't merely about competing desires. It's about being sure that one is doing the right thing, the ethical, moral thing.
— baker
What you're describing is a competing desire: a desire to be moral or, hopefully, to act upon a moral impulse. — Kenosha Kid
THERE is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is
not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest— whether
or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories—comes afterwards.
These are games; one must first answer.
This is how Camus opens his Myth of Sisyphus. (I'm surprised nobody brought it up yet.)
He formulates the matter as such: It's not about having a reason to live, it's about having a reason not to kill yourself. — baker
If your basement hasn't been flooded, why would you worry about your basement becoming flooded?Both those points are false. Life is not worth it. Nor is it fun. It just is. There is no logic to doing something because it is fun. Why can’t people see that? — Darkneos
That is such a crappy reason to engage in such a discussion and figure things out.I want to show that there is no reason for living so that when I eventually take my life people won’t call my illogical or clouded — Darkneos
No. I'm talking about actually being certain about one's sense of right and wrong. I'm talking about being certain that A is morally right, and that B is morally wrong. — baker
Yes, but they put up with that suffering only to avoid even greater suffering, and in the hopes of some small pleasures along the way and even greater pleasures afterward. — Pfhorrest
It's not about having a reason to live, it's about having a reason not to kill yourself. — baker
We don't choose to live, we live and that's that — TheMadFool
But we do choose to live, with every action that prolongs exists it's a choice to go on. Stop choosing and eventually death takes you. — Darkneos
I don't think you've worked a service job before. The kind of work wears you down to the point that most people dread waking up and going through it, never really being able to enjoy days off because they have to go back to the job. — Darkneos
I want to know WHY people choose to go on. — Darkneos
At the job I lost a year ago (and still haven't replaced), which I had for 8 years prior, I would routinely beat the everliving shit out of myself, with my actual fists, because of the pressure to keep up with the insane workloads that got dumped on me all at once. And then be awake all night anxious about the next day. And just barely be able to unwind back to "normal" by the end of the weekend, only for Monday to fuck it up again.
But I put up with it because the alternative was ending up homeless, or at best living in the tool shed next to my dad's trailer again, which was even worse. — Pfhorrest
But why bother with such things though? Why not choose to "not play the game" so to speak?I'm not sure and it's a good question. For me the possibility and actuality of relationships keep me going, I think. And I am most despairing when I find myself unable to relate to others well. Maybe separation creates the possibility of value, but then if relationships don't work well, or others are uncooperative, there is a tendency to want to take one's ball home, permanently. That'll show the buggers. I know I feel it quite a lot. — bert1
But do you know what that actually entails?But why bother with such things though? Why not choose to "not play the game" so to speak? — Darkneos
In the West, we're used to thinking like that, and to think those are the alternatives.Those who don't evidently find the alternative superior. — Pfhorrest
I want to know WHY people choose to go on. It's something I wondered about, why do we take life as a good thing or a given but when someone wishes to die they are "sick". What if they just don't want to do this dance anymore and are just tired. Tired of faking it just so they don't get locked up in some hospital or whatever. — Darkneos
hear that the good things in life make people stay but aren't those just to make life bearable? To me it seems like that is an argument only if you HAVE to live but from what I see it's optional. — Darkneos
But why bother with such things though? Why not choose to "not play the game" so to speak? — Darkneos
Heaven help the person who jumps off that bridge, with certain death imminent, and who, in those five seconds of falling, realizes he hasn't thought things through as thoroughly as he first assumed he did before jumping.
Not playing the proverbial game is much harder than just offing yourself. If you think that by offing yourself, you'll exit the game, then you're still giving supremacy to others, still letting others dictate your life, and you're even devoting those last few seconds of your life to them. To people who don't care enough about you to be there for you. Now that's a shame. — baker
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.