Beginningless:The necessary being exists necessarily, hence the fact that it exists must be true no matter what period of time or else timelessly. Therefore the necessary being is everlasting/eternal. — Elliot Fischer
Immateriality: — Elliot Fischer
a) If the power of the necessary being was arbitrarily limited to some extent rather than other, then it seems conceivable for it to have more or less power, thus making it contingent and hence requires an external explanation for its limitation. It seems weird to say something is necessarily limited to some extent rather than another. But in order to causally explain something one needs power, hence the power of the necessary being cannot have an external explanation because the necessary being cannot explain its power without having power to begin with. Therefore, the power of the necessary being is necessary, and hence without limit. — Elliot Fischer
First, if it goes through it does not prove 'God', but rather a 'necessary existent'. That thing will not be God, for if it exists of necessity then it cannot not exist, and thus is not omnipotent. This is an argument I have made elsewhere on this board. But briefly, it is plainly absurd for me to have powers that an omnipotent being lacks. I can take myself out of existence. Thus, an omnipotent being has that power too. Thus an omnipotent being is not a necessary existent, but exists by the grace of its own will (and so exists contingently, not of necessity). — Bartricks
But as to the argument itself, it is faulty for you have make two false assumptions. The first is that all contingent existences stand in need of explanation. The second is that a necessary existent would not stand in need of explanation. Both of these assumptions are false. — Bartricks
Imagine that causal determinism is true. Well, in that case everything that has come into being, has come into being of necessity. For determinism is the thesis that everything that happens 'had' - that is, was necessitated - to occur, given the past and the laws of nature. And so if we stipulate that the past and the laws of nature are themselves necessary, everything that exists, and everything that occurs does so of necessity. Yet clearly the fact there is a cup of coffee on my desk is still a fact that cries out for explanation. — Bartricks
What's the problem here? The problem is that even though something may exist or occur of necessity, it can still have a cause of its existing or occurring (as in the case of my cup of coffee being on the desk - it's there by necessity, but it was still caused to there). So, 'being cause to be so' and 'being there of necessity' are compatible. And that's why establishing that something exists or occurs of necessity will not by itself suffice to explain it - for it remains an open question whether it was caused to exist or not. Thus we can still intelligibly ask of anything that exists of necessity "was it caused to come into being or not?" Thus, the 'necessary' and 'contingent' distinction is not one between 'needs an explanation' and 'doesn't need an explanation'. — Bartricks
1. If anything exists, it either exists uncaused, or has been caused to exist
2. Some things exist
3. Therefore, they have either been caused to exist, or they exist uncaused
4. There cannot be an actual infinity of causes
5. If all things that exist have been caused to exist, there will be an actual infinity of causes
6. Therefore, not all things that exist have been caused to exist — Bartricks
I made no appeal to contingency or necessity above. So, without appealing to those notions, we can soundly conclude that some things that exist, exist uncaused. — Bartricks
A necesary existent is not necessarily everlasting. If causal determinism is true - and the laws of nature and the past are necessary - then everything that exists exists of necessity. Yet clearly not everything is everlasting. So, you cannot validly conclude from something's existing of necessity, that it exists forever. — Bartricks
The same applies. If causal determinism is true, then everything that exists exists of necessity. It would appeal that some of what exists is material. Thus it would seem that something can exist of necessity and be material. Existing of necessity does not, therefore, establish that the existent in question is immaterial. — Bartricks
You are quite right to think that an all-powerful being's power is unlimited. But that's precisely why it can't exist of necessity. For if it exists of necessity, then it lacks a power: the power not to exist at that moment. So, far from necessary existence implying omnipotence, it implies the exact opposite. An omnipotent being can do anything, including taking himself out of existence. Thus an omnipotent being does not exist of necessity. (Exists, yes, but not of necessity). — Bartricks
You can fail to exist due to your contingency, God's necessity renders His non-existence logically impossible. On the Christian and Muslim tradition, Omnipotence is power over all logical or metaphysical possibilities. — Elliot Fischer
No, I never said all contingent existences requires explanations, this isnt the SPSR this is the WPSR, I merely stated this is possibly the case. A necessary existence is not grounded in anything because it is absolutely fundamental. — Elliot Fischer
Causal determinism isnt true though. — Elliot Fischer
No, you've made numerous mistakes. — Elliot Fischer
1 begs the question because it presupposes existent things can be uncaused. — Elliot Fischer
4 isn't true, actual infinites are possible. — Elliot Fischer
Yes it is, something metaphysically necessary cannot fail to exist by definition, it's existence is purely necessary, so you've got your definitions confused like in the last comment. — Elliot Fischer
Responsed above - it's logically contradictory for something metaphysically necessary to not exist, and I've explained what omnipotence is in the two main Abrahamic religions. — Elliot Fischer
Irrelevant. I have the power not to exist, yes? So, an all powerful being must have that power too. He wouldn't if he exists of necessity. — Bartricks
What you say about those traditions is also false and irrelevant. Both Jesus and the Koran describe a God who can do 'anything'. They do not describe a necessary existent. But anyway, this is a philosophy forum not a 'describe your favourite tradition' forum. — Bartricks
Often we infer from these passages that God “can do anything.” But that doesn’t quite reflect the full biblical teaching. There are things that God cannot do. He cannot lie (Titus 1:2, cf. Num 23:19), nor, similarly, can he perform any immoral action. Since God is perfectly holy and good, he cannot do anything evil. And, since he is perfect truth, he cannot do things that are logically contradictory, like making round squares. His truth is a perfect consistency of thought and action. Nor can God do things inappropriate to his nature as God, like buying shoes or celebrating his birthday.
"Divine Power and Will:
The Reality of Divine Power: It is an eternal Attribute of which the existence and non existence of any possible thing is derived from, in accordance to the Divine Will."
Yes, but you can't get to your conclusion unless you assume that all contingent existences require explanations. — Bartricks
No it doesn't. It assumes that all things that exist have either been caused to exist, or they haven't. Like wot it says. — Bartricks
No they're not. And even if they are, this would undermine your case as one could then have an actual infinity of prior causes and one wouldn't need either to posit an uncaused causer or a necessary existent. — Bartricks
No, this is just confused. I could explain again, but you've already made up your mind. — Bartricks
Er, yes - that's why God doesn't exist of necessity. Blimey. And no, what you said was false and irrelevant. Anyway, I can tell this isn't going anywhere - bye. — Bartricks
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.