Well, this is supposedly the normal curve of happiness.

Now most of my social circle would likely me label me as nuts for thinking this way, but I suspect that within the group of philosophers in here, there are others who take a similar perspective. Am I wrong? — dazed

Fifty is pretty young to be thinking like this, even with some modest health issues.

It strikes me that 10 years from now is a pretty safe and distant time. I wonder if this is a serious idea or if it is a coping tool for your managing now. For instance - I have a way out on the horizon so I need not be too concerned by the present. This approach has a range of functions depending upon how one is living or thinking about life.

My overall approach when talking to people who are experiencing suicidal ideation (not you, naturally) is to establish what their reasons for living are. If these are sufficiently strong, the reasons for dying are generally overcome.

Live the kind of free life I would likely live if I won the lottery. I would live in a cool light filled loft, drive an exotic car and just wake up and do whatever the fuck I want that day. — dazed

A very wise man once said, "Success in life is not doing what you want to do, instead, it's doing what you have to do."

If doing what you want to do is identical to what you have to do, you win! This is the prize awarded to those who are able to achieve true balance in their lives.

At fifty, the good times are just beginning (as revealed by the graph). Hang-in and stop bringing down your beautiful wife. If you have not discovered your purpose as of yet, make it taking great care of this woman you love dearly. Is there a better reason to exist than that?

@Valentinus.

if you are preoccupied about when you will leave it, you have already left it. — Valentinus

THAT...is a very wise statement.

In the analogy given of life as a party, if you are preoccupied about when you will leave it, you have already left it. — Valentinus

:up:

Yep. :smirk:

my brother!
my wife also hates when I talk this way
and I also love the sense of freedom that comes with conscious recognition of the choice to choose the timing of your exit — dazed

Morbid brothers of the void! I like that Viking stuff where you float away on the ice. Dying alone is beautiful, I say! And I mean it. It's so deeply personal. It's going out to meet the dragon alone, a sort of peak heroic moment right at the end. It's more civilized that charging at machine guns with bayonets. I don't want it to be messy. It should be clean & serene. Ideally one's corpse would just evaporate. Perhaps in some civilized future to come, people will embrace death this way.

yeah I was raised a theist and my brain became a little hard wired with the God gives meaning and purpose to everything and now that's been taken away, and I face the reality that we are complex machines, it does seem all rather hollow in contrast — dazed

For me it's complicated. If life had a meaning, it wouldn't be worth living. It's the abyss that makes things rich. I do value a background sense that 'everything is empty --- all is vanity.' That pokes breathing-holes in the human drama. It's all dream, yeah, but we mostly forget that, and it's good that we do. Have you read Cioran ? You are dark enough to appreciate him. I'm just finally reading him closely.

yah it's all relative, and that's exactly my point, I only see my level of happiness relative to my own prior level of happiness declining as my body breaks down. There was a guy in his early 60's in my gym who said that every month he got a little weaker...I'd rather not.

The little lady will be fine, if I really decide to go down this path, I won't let her stick around, I will set her free to find a new partner. — dazed

Just some input: for me the fear is deterioration of character and mind. I can accept getting frailer and weaker within limits. I've seen people paralyzed by strokes. That's what makes we question the life-at-all-costs attitude. I hate the idea of being dependent. I guess it's just pride. But I want to go out in possession of myself, if possible. [Unless something stupid goes wrong, though, I expect to be spry at 60, which is more than 10 years from now.]

This is complex issue. Young people are dramatic about suicide. They haven't lived, cannot feel completed yet. But older people can actually feel that they've witnessed the essence. The idea of transcending attachment to the ego is involved here. I understand people's misgivings. It's a messy issue. But there is something about walking into death. Socrates and Christ are major cultural heroes. This stuff is anything but new, right?

I'd be more keen to have thousands spent on keeping me alive so I can hike Dartmoor with my family than having the same money spent so I can watch daytime TV and complain about my arthritis. — Isaac

:up:

Old age is not for everyone. And you never know what's going to go wrong for you or right for you in life. At age 84, my only advice is keep an open mind and stay physically and mentally active as long as possible. I recently returned to my fitness gym, after getting both vaccine shots, and it was a pleasurable experience. But then I have been athletic since the age of 17 and have kept it up. Don't boo hoo when you begin to decline and can't kick the soccer ball like you used to. If you keep at it you may be pleasantly surprised in old age, for your perspective will change. I too have scoliosis and severe arthritis. But four ibuprofen tablets and an acetaminophen taken an hour before exercise can work wonders.

If you make it there, that is. It's a crap shoot. :cool:

yeah I am a pretty basic dude
my reasons for living are sex, good food, driving sports cars, playing sports, lifting weights, being in nature and sharing laughs and good moments with family and friends
I am entirely uncultured (no interest in the arts or anything the like), don't read and am not interested in broader goods (too difficult to define in my post-theistic chaotic mind)

so as a basic dude, the more my body my breaks down and my reasons for living become less accessible and then clouded by annoyances like poor sleep, physical limitations and ailments, the balance sheet starts to sway towards I'd rather go out on a high...

living for the happiness of another (not matter how much I love her) is I think a recipe for disaster
I can't suffer through simply for her sake, I wouldn't expect that from her either

[reply="Todd Martin;507451"
it's more like I can see that the party is going to get old and no fun anymore and so want to enjoy the last hour or so

Believe me, all guys get the paradox, but (unfortunately) women appear to think differently on the subject.

@dazed. A man devoted to physical pleasures will necessarily suffer with age, as the body deteriorates more quickly and more certainly than the mind. A young man who cultivates his mind as well as his body, who enjoys philosophy as well as athletics, once he has grown so old that the latter begin to disappoint him, is heartened by the knowledge that he may apply himself to the more important affairs: of his soul; for his philosophy has already taught him that the pleasures and concerns of his body are ephemeral and negligible compared to those of his soul.

It is unfortunate that you are a man of neither arts nor letters...I remember watching the last concert Vladimir Horowitz played. He had returned to his native land after a long period of exile, now well into his 80s. The hall was packed, young boys “hanging from the rafters” to get a view. As he played a Mozart sonata, the camera panned to a Russian civil servant of some sort sitting erect in the audience, all dressed up in his uniform, his eyes closed, face composed; but a single tear running down his cheek...

...Vladimir died a few weeks later...of old age.

so as a basic dude, the more my body my breaks down and my reasons for living become less accessible and then clouded by annoyances like poor sleep, physical limitations and ailments, the balance sheet starts to sway towards I'd rather go out on a high... — dazed

There are forms of physical effort and conditioning that last much longer than others. I have had very old people toss me around like a rag doll. I don't think I will get that far but trying to do it has helped me a lot.

so as a basic dude, the more my body breaks down and my reasons for living become less accessible and then clouded by annoyances like poor sleep, physical limitations and ailments, the balance sheet starts to sway towards I'd rather go out on a high.. — dazed

I've seen this play out in the sport of rock climbing. Sometimes those afflicted follow through. Becoming obsessed with physical performance and not capable of gradually adjusting one's attitude over time is a recipe for termination.

There are times when I think back on my life in the sport, reflect on my performances when young, but I see all that from a different perspective now, and it seems distant and pleasurable but not all that significant. Young, energetic climbers frequently anticipate themselves in old age retaining that fascination that compels them. But it ain't necessarily so. Give yourself a little slack.

yup I imagine life expectancy for savages like me is lower, because if you aren't into the arts and intellectual pursuits, then as your body breaks down the physical sensations and outlets that sustained you wither away....there's less reason to live

btw I have always been a savage, as a child I never read for pleasure (only out of obligation), didn't like puzzles or board games that were strategic...I would rather do than think

i mean the sports performance is just one aspect of the overall deterioration that will significantly diminish my enjoyment in life

btw I have always been a savage, as a child I never read for pleasure (only out of obligation), didn't like puzzles or board games that were strategic...I would rather do than think — dazed

If you decide not to terminate early, you can carve wooden ducks in old age. Oops, that's artistic. Maybe not. Don't overthink it.

I wrote a paper about incorporating suicide into modern medical treatments years ago, while I was still in university, as part of my bioethics course. The premise of the paper was that we , in North America, ultimately fail our patients at the end of their lives by not incorporating an "eject button" as you put it. I put forward a model to identify the patient's condition as "crisis situation", in which cases we treat the crisis, or "chronic" in which case, we support the patient's decision and include the patient in the planning of their end of life affairs, with a qualifier that the patient can at any time elect to forgo the planned life termination. This is similar to the Medical Assistance In Dying bill currently in Canada, however, my model did not require any medical, or age, conditions to be applied. Age of majority only. The paper did not go over well with my instructor, however I was unaware that he was a staunch pro-lifer at that time. However, I stand by my paper, it is solid.

Currently we provide care for a patient from the point of the parents considering conception, conception, embryonic growth, birth, childhood, etc until such time, whenever it may be, that the patient says "enough. I am ready to go. Where is the exit please?" At that point all the healthcare providers that had been around, nosing into all sorts of affairs throughout the patient's life all run away and claim the patient has a mental health disorder that must be treated. This is an embarrassing failure. This is arguably the most needed time for a decent healthcare team that advocates for the will of the patient; instead we walk away, leaving the patient utterly alone, and worse, feeling that there is something fundamentally wrong with them for asking for the exit. This has led to something called "suicide tourism" wherein North American residents go to European countries which allow Euthanasia and remain there long enough to meet the qualifications required. Then the individual electing such is euthanized and the family returns the body to their country of origin to be buried or cremated or whatever they had chosen. I find it fundamentally wrong that one needs to leave their home country in order to be treated as they wish in their final time in this life. Who am I to decide for them what is appropriate care? I am not living their life.

I am with you, but as you have experienced novel perspectives on choosing death face a lot of resistance. Maybe in 10 years we will be closer to the model you espouse and my exit will be easy peasy.

I am thinking why not maximize the next 10 years and do what I REALLY want to do, instead of merely surviving. — dazed

This is good thinking! Find the job you enjoy doing, even if it pays less. Do not put off living in the moment because the moment is ALL we ever have. To assume you will live for 10 more years is faulty thinking, rather assume that today is the last day of your life and one day you will be right.