• Steve Leard
    31
    What if it is ever determined that animals are sentient creatures and possess that slippery thing we humans think of as the soul? There is a reason i ask. I was deployed to San Diego in the early eighties for a bit and one day took the opportunity to visit the zoo they have there. After an hour or so of looking at the animals in their enclosures i sat down on a bench and rested for a bit. And, you know that feeling you get when someone is staring at you - hard to explain but there it is. I glanced across the walkway and there was a massive gorilla sitting on a rock and he was staring at me. His eyes locked onto mine and I swear that every particle in the space between us boiled from the heat of the hatred in his eyes. It felt palpable. His eyes never wavered and, out of a sense of shame, I had to look away. That incredibly majestic creature had just told me everything i needed to know about his opinion of the human race.
    If we can ever prove what was clearly conveyed to me in that look would we treat all creatures as equals or would our conceit keep us from doing so? Would we require proof that intelligence of a sufficient quantity and quality be present before we stop looking at them as other than? Is the human mind capable of making the transition from living over them into living beside them?
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    What if it is ever determined that animals are sentient creatures and possess that slippery thing we humans think of as the soul?Steve Leard
    These are pretty much settled questions. Fuzzy is which, if not all, animals.
    Is the human mind capable of making the transition from living over them into living beside them?Steve Leard
    Mind? Sure. Stomach? Not so sure. Maybe someday. Of course in another sense the wolf does live beside the sheep and not naturally any other way. .
  • T Clark
    14k
    took the opportunity to visit the zooSteve Leard

    I do hate zoos.

    What if it is ever determined that animals are sentient creatures and possess that slippery thing we humans think of as the soul?Steve Leard

    As @tim wood indicated, scientists believe that a diverse set of animals may be self-aware e.g. crows, dolphins, octopi, and chimpanzees. Does that mean they have a soul? That's not the way I think of it. I won't eat any of those animals. As for other animals - scientists are working on growing meat directly from cells. Apparently they've gotten to the point where they can do it. Now they're working on taste, texture, and economics.

    I suggest you change the name of your thread to make it clearer what it is talking about. I would think a lot of people would be interested in this subject. I'm surprised the moderators haven't talked to you about it yet. They don't like vague titles.
  • Steve Leard
    31
    Point taken. Don't think i would want to snuggle up to a grizzly bear for a nap. But if the question has been settled it would have been settled based on parameters humans determined as being relevant. IMO that would be a rigged game. Unless we can communicate directly with a creature how could we know if they possess morality, imagination, reasoning based on logic and all the ephemera that humans have that make us worthy of life. I think maybe this is an issue best put on hold for the forseeable future. We have a hard enough time evaluating the worth of our own species.
  • Steve Leard
    31
    Thanks for the advice. I have never participated in this sort of thing before and that is compounded by the fact that i am virtually computer illiterate. I appreciate the help.
  • T Clark
    14k
    Thanks for the advice. I have never participated in this sort of thing before and that is compounded by the fact that i am virtually computer illiterate. I appreciate the help.Steve Leard

    More advice. I assume this is directed at me, but I'm not sure. You can make it clearer in two ways:

      [1] Make your response by clicking on the "reply" arrow next to the time stamp at the bottom of the post. That will tag your reply as a response to that person.

      [2] Better yet, highlight the text you want to quote. A little black "quote" tag should show up. Click on that and the text in quotes with an attribution will be copied down to the reply you are writing. If you haven't opened a reply yet, it will open one. This is what I have done at the top of this post.

    There are a bunch more tricks that will make posting easier and more effective. Try some of the tags at the top of the post you are writing. That's for formatting text and attaching images or videos to the post.
  • Steve Leard
    31
    "T Clark;513833"]Better yet, highlight the text you want to quote. A little black "quote" tag should show up[/quote]

    Thank you. I do appreciate the help. This can be overwhelming for dinosaurs like me.
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