something changed in the way they viewed the world — Todd Martin
His gift to Lorenzo was the one things ruler's most value, knowledge of how to rule. But any ruler who desires to stay in power will naturally be wary of someone who claims to have this knowledge because they pose a threat. So Machiavelli plays the part of the humble, ordinary citizen who has suffered greatly, that is, a weak man who would pose no threat to a prince. — Fooloso4
Stilbo. He was powerless to change fortune but demonstrated great power in his ability to change himself. — Fooloso4
... a way of life devoted to virtue, excellence, and spiritual development — Fooloso4
Allan Bloom speculates that Socrates chose death over exile for two reasons: “because he was old [and therefore had little opportunity left for philosophizing], and because it [his death] might just help philosophy.” — Todd Martin
As you have noted, Machiavelli was primarily speaking to future—not princes, but rather philosophers. — Todd Martin
... if we only benefit them enough to otherwise leave us alone to our austere study? — Todd Martin
we know from the Phaedo that he had a young son — Fooloso4
there are no accounts, as far as I know, in either Plato or Xenophon of any infirmity. — Fooloso4
does Bloom explain how this might help philosophy? — Fooloso4
By instructing the rulers Machiavelli helps shape the conditions in which the philosopher is free to follow his pursuits. — Fooloso4
But the goal is not simply to make the city safe for philosophy but to make philosophy safe for the city. — Fooloso4
But real cities must be a continuation of the city as it already exists. — Fooloso4
like the harm caused by medicine, — Fooloso4
how would Socrates’ acceptance of death because he was already naturally so close to it show that he wasn’t lying about the daimon? — Todd Martin
I think your point is that he had someone to live for. — Todd Martin
Nevertheless, it could reasonably be expected to come in the ensuing years — Todd Martin
yet he chose to die despite all the appeals of his friends that he live. — Todd Martin
Bloom meant that Socrates chose to be philosophy’s martyr — Todd Martin
I don’t know the exact timeline on these matters — Todd Martin
natural philosophy was coming to the fore — Todd Martin
But philosophy, true philosophy, cannot be made safe for the city — Todd Martin
Which is evidence that Plato never believed his imaginary city was practicable. — Todd Martin
What he meant to do was show us the ideal city; the theoretical one by which all practical ones would be measured. — Todd Martin
I am not aware of any harm the ancient physicians caused the city. — Todd Martin
Bloom meant that Socrates chose to be philosophy’s martyr.
— Todd Martin
I would be very surprised to learn that this is Bloom's view. — Fooloso4
The physician treats the body with medicines that are to some degree harmful but restore and promote health. Socrates harmed the city by undermining its foundations, but he did so to promote the city's health. — Fooloso4
Modern philosophy and science overcame the domination of the Church. — Fooloso4
Natural philosophy was already prominent, guided by the work of "the philosopher", that is, Aristotle. — Fooloso4
Machiavelli died 1527. Galileo was born 1564. Francis Bacon was born 1561 — Fooloso4
Wouldn't those years be spent philosophizing with his friends? — Fooloso4
Notice that these three figures are all great men characterized by tragedy ... — Todd Martin
he is old, because it is inevitable, and because it costs him almost nothing — Todd Martin
'it would be unjust for him to have benefitted all his life from Athens, then turn around and negate her lawfully conducted jurisdiction. — Todd Martin
But what greater degree of harm can one do to something other than by undermining its foundation? — Todd Martin
And the idea that Socrates, after a lifetime of philosophizing, suddenly felt guilty after being indicted and was willing to be put to death seems rather silly . — Todd Martin
The Dark Ages were not lacking in philosophy. — Todd Martin
But the Renaissance scientists were busy contradicting Aristotle. — Todd Martin
After many centuries of stasis, it was the political philosophers, not the natural ones, who dared/decided to shake things up. — Todd Martin
The reason I have not yet responded to you is because our debate caused me to feel the need to do some research first: — Todd Martin
it seems to have inspired Republican American politics of the late 90s — Todd Martin
Were you ever familiar with that site? — Todd Martin
all the way back at least to a Barry Goldwater speech — Todd Martin
This is all of a piece with his teaching that philosophy is a very personal, as opposed to political, undertaking.. — Todd Martin
Bloom admonishes us, though the philosopher is psychologically outside the cave, he always remains physically within it — Todd Martin
Division after philosophical revolution seems to be a given — Todd Martin
I did discover that philosophy can now be purchased in a bottle. — Fooloso4
Does he say what he thinks our status is epistemologically? I am inclined to thing that we are psychologically still under the influence of the image or makers. — Fooloso4
I assume by “we” and “us” you mean philosophers. — Todd Martin
“epistemologically” — Todd Martin
But the difference between him and other men is that he learns they are only shadows—shadows which give us access to the truth—whereas they believe the shadows are the real things and are passionately committed to that belief. — Todd Martin
... you propose a very radical and relativistic interpretation of Plato’s cave that I have never heard of...whence did you obtain that opinion, that Plato is manipulating us through images of the ideas in this way? — Todd Martin
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