There is a very long conversation to be had here. I think Joseph Priestley made the correct observation when he said that:

"It is said that we can have no conception how sensation or thought can arise from matter, they being things so very different from it, and bearing no sort of resemblance to anything like figure or motion; which is all that can result from any modification of matter, or any operation upon it.…this is an argument which derives all its force from our ignorance. Different as are the properties of sensation and thought, from such as are usually ascribed to matter, they may, nevertheless, inhere in the same substance, unless we can shew them to be absolutely incompatible with one another.”... this argument, from our not being able to conceive how a thing can be, equally affects the immaterial system: for we have no more conception how the powers of sensation and thought can inhere in an immaterial, than in a material substance..."

(Italics mine)

"...there [is] in matter a capacity for affections as subtle and complex as any thing that we can affirm concerning those that have hitherto been called mental affections."

On this view, mind is matter. So there aren't thoughts as opposed to matter.

As for you later point, all the evidence so far shows that these types of phenomena don't happen, we can't manipulate objects just by thinking hard about them.

No. You can build a perfect coin flipper and if all the coins were perfect, no matter how hard you thought about it, they would all land 100% one way.

when it comes to healing the placebo effect is powerful — TiredThinker

Sometimes it is, but a placebo involves the material world. A procedure or medicine is faked, but something real (even if it has zero efficacy) is done. A confounding factor in our estimation of placebos is the immune system. A reduction in stress (less anxity) might give the immune system a boost in effectiveness.

Another factor is the natural history of disease. If you have a severe cold, you might seek any relief you can get, including prayer, chicken soup, or blue pills from the doctor. Even if none of those placebos have any actual effect, viral infections (like colds) can be very bad and last x number of days before they are at last vanquished by the immune system.

We rashly wish that mind could affect matter, but you know, it's a good thing that thinking can not bring down planes.

Can we control anything external with thoughts? — TiredThinker

Does your body count as external?

Doesn't the body think? If so, 'controlling the body with thoughts' is not much different than scratching an itch on your right hand with your left.

One area which I think is relevant to your debate is the idea of the law of attraction. It is not simply about mind over matter, because the two are not easy to separate. However, what does come into the picture is intentionality, and of the role of our consciousness. The idea of the law of attraction, as advocated by Esther and Jeremy Hicks, and many other writers is of intention, on a conscious and subconscious level, having a determining effect in what becomes manifest in our external lives.

Doesn't the body think? If so, 'controlling the body with thoughts' is not much different than scratching an itch on your right hand with your left. — 180 Proof

So your skin is a thought horizon ?

I don't understand the question.

don't understand the question. — 180 Proof

Thought ends at your skin? I don't know how thought works. I don't have any strong metaphysical bias to lean me in one direction or another. I just live with working scenarios, like we're in a shared dream with some ability to influence the content.

That's basically what engineering is: turning ideas into reality. So the answer to the OP appears to be yes, thoughts can shape reality. It's just that you need the right science or magic as an interface.

Right?

Thought ends at your skin? — frank

Sounds nonsensical like saying 'traveling across the Earth's surface ends at the horizon'.

Like event horizon. Thought horizon...

No? Ok. :up:

I don't mean absolute control over anything. Clearly there are billions of people all with consciousness and they may focus their thoughts on many of the same things including preferable weather. So the consensus is we can't control anything with only our thoughts outside of our bodies? Even if no conflict between people exists?

Why do some people think such a power exists? Sure humans have many psychological biases, but some must have rational to think their power exists only from their voice and hands?

Yes is the answer however the atomistic believers will want it quantified and given the stamp of approval before excepting it as true
Which unfortunately isn't going to happen seeing as you can't quantify a thought

Of course, out mind can create movement in our own body, but can it make movement beyond that, with use of our physical body. Also, this happens all of the time. The horror that the Wicked Witch of the East caused amoung millions of children. The comfort that a smile from one's partner can bring. Or the sense of hurt that a scowl from a parent might bring. Or the love that a quiet look from a pet gives to stop many. This is how Life communicates with each other. By feelings. Sending a rocket into space is nothing compared to the exchange of human emotions.

Lots of good answers. Our thoughts do have distal effects by way of symbolic interactions. As said, mind and matter aren't really separate, rather they together constitute a system. The mechanics of that system are such that ordinary thoughts can be effected with greatest efficiency. I'm not sure what the 'cost' of me levitating a glass of water into my hand is, but odds are its a whole lot higher than me just walking over to the sink and getting it. As far as healing goes, I was an ultrarunner and I've seen lots and lots of people who defied the limits of the physical on many occasions. I blew out an ankle really badly a week before my first fifty mile race. Having trained for several months, I was damned if I was going to miss it. I did four ultrasound sessions that week, wrapped it up super tight and went for it. Despite rolling it again in the first 30 minutes I still finished, and in a decent time.