More than becoming (e.g. "making meanings"), we are always already disappearing. Deny it to your heart's content, there's no escape from this fact. Not by suicide. Not by murder. Not by faith or wishful-thinking. IMO, this is the meaning of "meaning-making" — 180 Proof
The facts indicate that there's not an iota of evidence for this — Manuel
Facts don't indicate what exactly? Facts cannot indicate anything outside the material realm, since facts are empirically observable phenomenon. For this reason, it doesn't seem correct to expect facts to provide indications about aspects of reality beyond the material realm. — emancipate
Perhaps it is our own egotistical attachment to the idea of a 'self', and, I believe, that the Buddhists challenge the idea of there being a self, as an independent entity. — Jack Cummins
So, generally there is a longstanding history of people being fascinated by the possibility of a nonmaterial dimension, which has appeared shrouded in mystery. — Jack Cummins
[Self conciousness] has not merely lost its essential and concrete life, it is also conscious of this loss and of the transitory finitude characteristic of its content. Turning away from the husks it has to feed on, and confessing that it lies in wickedness and sin, it reviles itself for so doing, and now desires from philosophy not so much to bring it to a knowledge of what it is, as to obtain once again through philosophy the restoration of that sense of solidity and substantiality of existence it has lost. Philosophy is thus expected not so much to meet this want by opening up the compact solidity of substantial existence, and bringing this to the light and level of self-consciousness is not so much to bring chaotic conscious life back to the orderly ways of thought, and the simplicity of the notion, as to run together what thought has divided asunder suppress the notion with its distinctions, and restore the feeling of existence.
Fuck yes! Can't repeat this enough. Thank you. :100: — 180 Proof
The "faith is just people trying to get over their fear of death," trope never made sense to me in light of Calvinism. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Death is just the beginning of your woes, and even if you might escape the torments of Hell, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it yourself.
That's more nightmare fuel than anything else. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The "faith is just people trying to get over their fear of death," trope never made sense to me in light of Calvinism. How could an idea of God that creates and assigns the vast majority conciousnesses to eternal suffering be comforting? Death is just the beginning of your woes, and even if you might escape the torments of Hell, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it yourself.
That's more nightmare fuel than anything else. — Count Timothy von Icarus
It is interesting that Aquinas thought that it would be better to be in hell than not exist at all. I think that I would prefer not to exist. I remember when I was growing up that someone suggested that hell would actually be about not existing at all. It was the first time that I ever considered the possibility of nothingness, and it struck me as a better option, although I was not entirely sure. — Jack Cummins
someone suggested that hell would actually be about not existing at all. — Jack Cummins
However, the whole idea of fear of death is so central to the ideas which we develop about it. The Egyptians had complex beliefs and rituals surrounding death. They saw it about journeying towards underworlds, and seems that most religious thinking goes back to the Egyptians. — Jack Cummins
Even within Islam, as far as I understand, there is a belief that the terrorists, who get killed themselves in the attacks which they carry out go straight to heaven. So, the views people have about death have profound implications for the way people live. — Jack Cummins
I agree. But as we can see from the way people can be emotionally manipulated and mobilized for political purposes such as in rallies and mass demonstrations, perhaps the "raw world and our own feelings" is still very much with us, only perhaps hidden under a veneer of "civilization" and "progress". — Apollodorus
Yeah, culture, no doubt, began with burying the dead – all the speculative import that that took initially and manifest subsequently in funerary rites (much as civilization also probably began with eating cooked foods ... & fermentation).So much of culture itself is based around death, and the ceremonial rights. — Jack Cummins
I think language goes a long time but we are still only left with models and metaphors.
Obviously, some develop fully-fledged systems of thought but even these are open to being challenged by opposing ones. Perhaps, I think too much and should just contemplate more. The mystics come up with the best answers which they can and probably don't keep thinking and thinking. Could it be one possible problem inherent in philosophy, that it is possible to spend a whole life going round in circles, thinking?
If you have read my previous post to you, you may be wondering why I mentioned panpsychism, and I can explain that came from reading a book a couple of days ago, 'Ancient Wisdom' by Annie Besant, which suggested that all inanimate matter have some rudimentary consciousness. I am not sure if that is true, but it did get me wondering about it.
I am definitely wishing to explore more of the ideas of some of the more ancient thinkers because I do think that they were able to get in touch with truths on a more intuitive level than we who so caught up in rational thinking may be able to. I am not wishing to throw rationality aside but do think that Western philosophy has become too dominated by it. Jung spoke of the importance of integrating reason, feeling, sensation and intuition as means of knowing. I do believe that the way in which philosophers of this century and the last one have become so 'in their heads' may be why many people are looking outside philosophy more, to texts, such as 'The Tao de Ching'.
It may be that it is because Lao Tzu and the Greek philosophers were able to use words in a deeper way, rather than just providing rational arguments. In our own times, for many, the arts, especially literature, may offer deeper insights than possible within philosophy. Of course, I am not just wishing to dismiss philosophy, but just think that we need to widen our imagination rather than narrow it down too — Jack Cummins
Yeah, culture, no doubt, began with burying the dead – all the speculative import that that took initially and manifest subsequently in funerary rites (much as civilization also problably began with eating cooked foods ... & fermentation). — 180 Proof
Some human cultures may bury the remains of beloved animals. Humans are not the only species to bury their dead; the practice has been observed in chimpanzees, elephants, and possibly dogs.
Burial - Wikipedia — wikipedia
Yes it is the sense of our apparent finitude - the impending death which looms over us all - which drives us to try and make sense of this absurd existence. Seems to me that you have it backwards: death is the cause of man's desire to find meaning, rather than meaning-making being the distraction of death. — emancipate
Facts don't indicate what exactly? Facts cannot indicate anything outside the material realm, since facts are empirically observable phenomenon. For this reason, it doesn't seem correct to expect facts to provide indications about aspects of reality beyond the material realm and then make assertions about the other (spiritual) aspects of reality based on the lack of... facts. — emancipate
Wow, I really like your observation! Our raw, animal instincts will always be part of us and this is what makes education for self-control and understanding what self-control and obeying the law has to do with liberty so important. I have a big problem with Christianity denying we have evolved from animals because that leads to education for technology without education for citizenship, and supernatural notions, instead of understanding human nature. I think many bad decisions follow rejecting the science of evolution. — Athena
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