"Be a good person but don’t waste time to prove it."

Good advice.

But on the other hand what if people have lack of perspective to understand of what is good and what is bad. — RBS

Good question, but an altogether different problem. There are numerous cases where large numbers of people have failed to understand the good they should do, and the bad they should avoid.

Good question, but an altogether different problem. There are numerous cases where large numbers of people have failed to understand the good they should do, and the bad they should avoid. — Bitter Crank

Agree, lately this is getting a bigger and bigger issue. However, I don’t understand if humans are trying hard to un-educate themselves with all the education they have or there is nothing that can be done to the human race at all. Despite of all the good we read, see and talk about, why it’s getting hard to act upon them.

Quote above says to be good person and rest will be good. But that can only apply if that person lives in a good environment and have good around him/her, else to me it seems that a good apple will not last long in bad ones.

I guess we can argue on its validity from both side of the argument of the quote being right and wrong. — RBS

It is a simple declaration that almost matches the Christian ideal that you shouldn't do good for the bragging rights. If good acts are done for show and reputation, the 'good' is no longer the motivation.

If good acts are done for show and reputation, the 'good' is no longer the motivation. — Tom Storm

:100: As has been said, integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking. If one were to do it otherwise, then it might be done as "leadership by example." But even then, it's better to let others (beneficiaries or unconnected) blow your trumpet.

Despite of all the good we read, see and talk about, why it’s getting hard to act upon them. — RBS

Actually, it has always been harder to be good than to give into whatever primal urges we have and just ruin everything. We teach our children to behave, and to want to be good, and for the most part, people do behave pretty good -- until they don't.

Take Germany as an example: Germany was a reasonably good place to live prior to the rise of Nazism in the 1920s--not perfect, but you know, not too bad. It was a sophisticated, civilized, cultured society. In the 1930s it changed into a sociopathic juggernaut for many people (and not just the Jews). After they Germans were beaten to a pulp by the allies in WWII, and then placed under supervision for a while, they found their way back to being a sophisticated, civilized, cultured society.

We Americans tend to think of ourselves as a sophisticated, civilized, cultured society too -- despite having operated a slave economy, carried out genocide against the native peoples, stolen other countries' lands -- Mexico lost most of its territory to American lebensraum (we called it 'manifest destiny')--and perpetuating highly discriminatory practices against various groups (blacks, gays, leftists, labor organizers, workers, women -- just about everybody). And, actually, we do qualify as a sophisticated, civilized cultured society (well, maybe not all that cultured, when you get right down to it--a lot of us Americans are lowbrows--certainly not ME, of course).

Most societies are reasonably decent places to live, most of the time--that is, until they aren't. But they usually try to get back to reasonable decency. It might take a century...

So am seeing this quote now days quite a lot. — RBS

That's why they call it virtue signaling. The worst people spend the most time telling you how good they are.

That's why they call it virtue signaling. The worst people spend the most time telling you how good they are. — fishfry

That always crossed my mind every time I saw a little crucifix around the neck of a political pundit on T.V. Of course it's easy to hide behind the alleged truth of it, but when actions seem so "un-Jesus like", I'm forced to wonder. :smirk:

Write (Right) meaning Time will tell of your character and what you leave behind. — RBS

What you leave behind is of no concern to you after you have left it behind. If you believe in Heaven and Hell, then you're in eternal bliss, so nothing matters, or else in eternal pain, when nothing matters since you can't change it. If you totally die, your spirit or soul or conscience perishes, then, again, there is no consequence to you what people think of you after you pass away.

The only way to enjoy or be bitter about your own posterity is to become a ghost that walks the Earth. And we ALL know ghosts don't exist.

I'm speculating so cut me some slack. Good, whether we comprehend it for what it really is or not, has to my reckoning a particularly intriguing characteristic viz. it's self-abnegating. Good regards any and all kinds of self-promotion as inherently bad. This peculiar side of good probably stems from the overall theme of what good is which is that it's about others and that necessarily requires that the self (here good itself) be relegated to a lower position in the list of what matters (paradox warning!). Good wouldn't want to make a grand entry in any situation at all even if it were the case that if it did that it could eliminate all that's bad for doing that amounts to sounding one's own trumpet and that's decidedly bad.

Good wouldn't want to make a grand entry in any situation at all even if it were the case that if it did that it could eliminate all that's bad for doing that amounts to sounding one's own trumpet and that's decidedly bad. — TheMadFool

It's all relative. Fake humility isn't worth much is it?

Be a good person but don’t waste time to prove it.[/quote]
I suspect this is supposed to mean something like 'be a good person, but don't try to change the minds of those who think you're not a good person'.

It's all relative. Fake humility isn't worth much is it? — frank

What do you mean by "it's all relative"?

Fake humility? Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I know you're on the right track - I can feel it - but you should, given the complexity of the issue and the rather poor quality of our reasoning, things you seem to be fully aware of, cut people some slack. It's not easy, no?

Plus, if a person is feigning humility, at the very least he's aware of the concept and how much it means to people. Contrast that to someone who's arrogant - fae either doesn't know or doesn't give a rat's ass about humility

What do you mean by "it's all relative"? — TheMadFool

Morality. All relative.

Plus, if a person is feigning humility, at the very least he's aware of the concept and how much it means to people. Contrast that to someone who's arrogant - fae either doesn't know or doesn't give a rat's ass about other people. — TheMadFool

Arrogance is the sail on the boat. Unfurl it and you'll go far. The person who believes humility is inherently good will stay at the dock and never know where she could have gone.

A wise man doesn't fake wisdom. He is the pure fool. Wisdom comes from crashing into the rocks.

Arrogance is the sail on the boat. Unfurl it and you'll go far. The person who believes humility is inherently good will stay at the dock and never know where she could have gone.

A wise man doesn't fake wisdom. He is the pure fool. Wisdom comes from crashing into the rocks. — frank

I like that, for some reason. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's good.

The only question in my mind, is how to parse out guys like Trump. Is he the wisest man of all? He's got the arrogance down pat, he's a pure fool, and he's crashed into a metric shit ton of rocks. Maybe I'm not putting the pieces together properly.

One thing I strongly suspect (but cannot prove) is that no rock has ever crashed into him. That might be where true (not fake) humility comes from.

Of all the men I've ever seen in public service, I think they have, at one time or another in their past, maybe even on the elementary school yard, been punched square in the face, and hard. I don't think some folks have ever had that happen. I think some have been surrounded by a posse who steers clear, not out of fear of the individual, but maybe fear of his daddy, or simple cowardice, or a desire to fit in with the posse.

Thinking out loud.

The only question in my mind, is how to parse out guys like Trump — James Riley

who?

Morality. All relative. — frank

:lol: If you say so but I'm pretty sure you're confusing moral relativism with something else.

Arrogance is the sail on the boat. Unfurl it and you'll go far. The person who believes humility is inherently good will stay at the dock and never know where she could have gone. — frank

:up:

The highest virtue is not virtuous — Laozi

or something like that

Some things we want to forget, but those who forget the past . . .

What goes around, comes around.

If you say so but I'm pretty sure you're confusing moral relativism with something else. — TheMadFool

Like what?

But doesn't being a good person already prove that you're a good person? Trying to prove it seems redundant. I guess that's the whole point of the quote.

Like what? — frank

Moral relativism claims that good and bad are culturally or historically defined concepts but that's not an open and shut case as far as I'm concerned - you're ignoring the fact that ignorance of morality may have a role. Thus, moral relativism has no relevance to the issue of humility or any other moral issue for that matter. There's something else that's at play here. What that "something else" is is, as of the moment, a mystery to me.

In historical dramas, whether western or asian, poor people are humble around rich people. It's part of how heirarchy works. Is that what you mean?

In historical dramas, whether western or asian, poor people are humble around rich people. It's part of how heirarchy works. Is that what you mean? — frank

I'm surprised that I have to explain it more than I already have. If it doesn't make sense then I guess it doesn't. Insofar as I'm concerned, it's a work in progress. I'll get back to you if I can crack this ethical puzzle. I don't know how but I'll try. Sayonara.

. I want you to understand this ...

. If you have to prove anything is because you're not that which you want to prove ...

. If you want to prove that you're a good person, is because you're not ...

. If you want to prove that you're humble or virtuous, is because you're not ...

. Why?

. Because anything born from the ego, that is, anything born from the desire of social recognition; born from your self awareness, leads to distortion of perception and suffering ...

. Seek not ... Because you're already that which you're looking for ...

If good acts are done for show and reputation, the 'good' is no longer the motivation. — Tom Storm

This is spot on, but don't you think that it's show is for the purpose of others to be motivated?

I don't know if I am quite following up with what you said here, maybe pushing yourself harder to please others will make you to become like a shapeshifter to become each and every single time the image that others have in mind of you for you rather you being a reflection of what you want to be or are in reality.

I think humans have the potential to live together with and be good to each other. But sometimes, i don't know maybe we forget the mindset of us not being here forever in this world. If we have that in mind then i would say that we can be happy with what we have and share what we think is more than what we need.

A good discussion from all in above notes. Thanks for your effort and time in educating this idiot :)

Warmest regards,
Until next post.

. See ... It is simple, friend ... But it is a very subtle and delicate matter ... You understand ...

. Please, do not philosophize about it ... Otherwise you'll create more problems out of a simple matter ...

. And that's what humanity have been doing ... You just need to see the reality as it is, carefully ... Innocently ... With no arrogance ... With no prejudice or preconceived idea ... In that state there is clarity and wonder ... In that state there is a mirror like quality ...

. Don't try to become anything ... In that becoming ... There is mental effort, right?

. There is a state of contradiction ... You're not that which you desire ... And this leads to psychological suffering, whether made it consciously or unconsciously ...

. See ... there is two kinds of person in the world ... People who follow Morality and people who follow Religiousness, not the religion you know, from the theologians, but the pure religion ... The one associated with meditation ... That's the true one ... The religion of Jesus, or the religion of Buddha ... Or Mahavira ... and so on ... you understand ?

. Not the religion of these stupid priests ... They're manipulative people ... They're in service of the devil ... can you see that, friend? They want power, and the Heaven is a simple pretext ... you understand that ? PLEASE SEE THIS ... There is no Heaven, there is no Hell ! This is the most STUPID idea ever created by humanity! If you go into this matter deeply, you'll understand by yourself ... and in that understanding i'm not moralizing you! You understand it through your own intelligence! You do it because you're a meditative being ... !

. So, this is an example to show you, that a man of morality is a man ready to obey to any stupid commandment ... To any stupid Leader (Hitler, Trump etc.). They're not a man of understanding ... They're just by-products of the society ... Subtle slaves ...

. A man of Religiousness is a man of intelligence ... A Jesus; A Buddha; A Lau Tzu... They're compassionate beings ...

. Hugs friend ... Please, go into it by yourself deeply ... But do not analyse it ... Just see it innocently ... Not philosophically ...

. you quote Laozi, but you did not even understand it ...