There’s your problem right there. It’s a religion, and belief is involved. Either get over it, and get on with it, or walk away. — Wayfarer
One needs to have trust or faith or a belief that enlightenment is possible. But the goal is liberation not knowledge. — Fooloso4
One needs to have trust or faith or a belief that enlightenment is possible. But the goal is liberation not knowledge.
— Fooloso4
I can't see how liberation can happen without gaining any knowledge. Can you enlighten me and help me to see how I am wrong in this opinion? — god must be atheist
You most certainly did not explain it. You just claimed it, with nothing further.I have explained that Buddhism does not require that we take anything for granted,. — FrancisRay
How about you actually reading what I said? The you'll see that I don't have the ideas you imagine I have!The Buddha spends half his time telling us not to do this. There is no such thing as 'politically incorrect in mysticism. I can't imagine where you get these ideas. . .
*sigh*It seems you want me to explain what is explained in ten thousand books. This is not fair. I'll probably stick to recommending relevant texts in future. . .
Belief is involved in everything. Marxist material atheists have a belief, too. — god must be atheist
While you, of course, are inevitably close to nirvana, or already there, right? Right.But it looks like our friend baker will require a good few rebirths - hopefully as a Buddhist - to achieve that. — Apollodorus
While you, of course, are inevitably close to nirvana, or already there, right? Right. — baker
What a rookie.Well, desire is fundamental to our psychological make-up, it's extremely difficult to get rid of. And there is always that secret nagging desire to attain nirvana. — Apollodorus
If I was a bodhisattva I could help guide you to enlightenment
— Fooloso4
No. A bodhisattva is not yet a buddha, a bodhisattva is not yet enlightened, he doesn't have that status.
The idea that the unelightened could lead others to enlightenment is absurd. — baker
Bodhisattvas are enlightened beings who have put off entering paradise in order to help others attain enlightenment. There are many different Bodhisattvas, but the most famous in China is Avalokitesvara, known in Chinese as Guanyin ...Renouncing their own salvation and immediate entrance into nirvana, they devote all their power and energy to saving suffering beings in this world.
However, the fact is that some historians and even socialists have described it as a form of messianic religion. — Apollodorus
It is not that liberation happens without gaining any knowledge but that the goal of enlightenment is not to gain knowledge but to gain liberation. — Fooloso4
The idea that the unelightened could lead others to enlightenment is absurd. — baker
It was funny, but true. — god must be atheist
As to Buddhism, at least in some forms of it, it does believe in supernatural beings, there is no doubt about it. — Apollodorus
People brought up with the Western mentality of materialistic consumer society often fail to understand what it all involves. — Apollodorus
Actually, depending on the group or movement we're talking about, most seekers are said to attain enlightenment after many lives, the lucky ones after two or three and very rarely in this lifetime. — Apollodorus
As for enlightenment you can't declare anything in advance, you're just stating what normally happens, and in those cases where you can see that you yourself or some other practitioner has not attained that state in their lifetime. — Apollodorus
I'm not sure the majority of early Buddhists looked on the gods and other supernatural beings as "Hindu" or "non-Buddhist", they were just part of Indian culture. — Apollodorus
You must have some sort of measuring system, that would be interesting to know about. — god must be atheist
It would indeed. Unfortunately, it isn't my measuring system. I'm just relating what I've heard from Buddhists and Hindus. But some texts do describe what might amount to "evidence" or "signs" of enlightenment. — Apollodorus
So when we talk about Buddhists, then we say religion was part of their culture, but not part of their teachings. — god must be atheist
If deities occur in Buddhist texts — Apollodorus
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