It's telling that a lot of leftists who indeed are leftists do oppose the theory, unlike who seems to think that it's just a red scare issue while the theory itself is just fine. Yet It's basically a flawed theory which basically starts explains everything with slavery. The major idea I guess is that racism is a systemic feature of social structure, hence you have a lot of explaining how racist the society is. Sure, the US does have it's past and the present is an continuation from the past, but this viewpoint doesn't seem to notice that a) things and views change and b) there can be other explanatory factors too.B. CRT's unpopularity. You can take a radical stand on the side of goodness knowing full well you aren't at risk of having to follow through on the radical promises. And indeed, we we wealthy Whites jumping ship and moving in cases where they actually win victories on these fronts. — Count Timothy von Icarus
”Whiteness fits the broad historical concept of property by classical theorists”.
So property rights are whiteness. And then she concludes: — ssu
Children for more affluent families tend to fair better than children from poor one's.While class is important, as Timothy points out, poor whites do tend to fair better than poor people of color. — ToothyMaw
27 million went to an area that is has more whites than US average? Hmm.For instance, this article points out a disparity between treatment of people of color and whites with regards to hunger relief — ToothyMaw
It's telling that a lot of leftists who indeed are leftists do oppose the theory, unlike ↪StreetlightX
who seems to think that it's just a red scare issue while the theory itself is just fine. — ssu
Oh yes, the state of Maine is far more multicultural than Finland. And indeed, few countries are so homogenous as my country. Yet I do see the same problems even here and that's what I find so interesting. I have lived a small but crucial time in the US, so where the country is going does interest me. Yet even here, in a Nordic welfare state, coming from a more affluent family or even more affluent region does have an effect. It just seems that once race is involved, there's not much else to be seen.I always find it funny when ssu inserts his opinion on subjects related to Black Americans when he lives in Finland, which has a population of 54,450 with a "close African background" or about 1% of the population. — Maw
That's a good example of how complex policy issues in education are. Yet simple answers with a simple focus on any issue are easy to grasp, the reality behind it is more difficult.You'd do a lot better looking at how schools are funded than trying to get rid of standardized tests, but I suppose they are low hanging fruit. Indeed, it's ironic since standardized tests are a great way to identify talented individuals who might be preforming well because they are in poor school enviornments, it's exactly the sort of thing you don't want to get rid of. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The preaching zealots make a more lively debate than the dreary timid professional, who confuses the audience with multiple viewpoints of the issue at hand.I think the practical problem with CRT and other such theories purporting to define or describe immensely complicated societies and their history (the theoretical problem with them is their absolutism) are the zealots who preach them and interpret them, and the zealots who oppose them. Those who think racism an aberration are foolish; those who think (for example) that racism has been a peculiarly American trait or phenomenon because a privateer intercepted a Portuguese ship and brought about 20 enslaved Africans to Virginia in 1619 are guilty of poor thinking, if nothing else. — Ciceronianus the White
I think the practical problem with CRT and other such theories purporting to define or describe immensely complicated societies and their history (the theoretical problem with them is their absolutism) are the zealots who preach them and interpret them, and the zealots who oppose them. — Ciceronianus the White
As I'm a lawyer of vast experience and unsurpassed ability, — Ciceronianus the White
Recently, the State of Idaho prohibited the teaching of CRT (and Socialism and Marxism for good measure) in its public schools, thereby continuing the American tradition of regulating what is taught and learned by our youth. — Ciceronianus the White
all of us probably live in fear that our children will learn things we don't know or at least don't approve of; a haunting fear indeed.
I think the practical problem with CRT and other such theories purporting to define or describe immensely complicated societies and their history (the theoretical problem with them is their absolutism) are the zealots who preach them and interpret them, and the zealots who oppose them. — Ciceronianus the White
A fear there might be something short of zeal for our way of thinking. — James Riley
The Fabians' infiltration and takeover of socialist groups from political parties to union organizations and other institutions and movements on both sides of the Atlantic has enabled corporate interests to maintain their control over economy, politics and other aspects of public life. — Apollodorus
I'm pretty sure the BLM movement has been infiltrated by the government--just based on past Federal behavior. — Bitter Crank
The problem for these types of theories is that slavery, extremely high rates of violence, human sacrifice, and cannibalism show up in every human habitat if you look back far enough. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Arguments tend to hinge on Europeans becoming the heirs to wealthy countries with high levels of technological development and low levels of violence due to their oppressing other peoples and extracting wealth from abroad. However, the development of thought that would lead to the scientific revolution pre-dates European colonization. The Spanish and Ottoman Empires continued to colonize more lands and take more slaves as they declined, while northern Europe, without a legacy of colonies, became the most developed region. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The whole concept of Whiteness itself has to start around the 1930s, as the prior peak in US immigration levels two decades earlier, overwhelmingly from Europe, produced a massive backlash against immigration, and by far and away the harshest restrictions on immigration the US ever had. — Count Timothy von Icarus
However, probably the largest factor was the dramatic cut off of immigration under US law. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The implication being that one of the best things the US could do right now to solve racial divisions is to dramatically curtail immigration, — Count Timothy von Icarus
Since immigration necissarily increases inequality due to the fact that most immigrants are coming from developing countries, and since demand for unskilled labor is plummeting, this would also help to assuage class divisions, and yet CRT generally posits that restrictions on immigration are definitionally racist. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The quote you cite is emblematic of another problem, which is the trend towards labeling everything that correlates with racial disparities as racist. The problem is that some of the beaurocratic systems, designed to treat people equally in all cases, which are essential to high functioning states, can also help produce feedback loops of racial inequality. This does not mean those essential systems need to be dismantled however. — Count Timothy von Icarus
At its worst, CRT advocates for the neopatromonial politics common to African nations, where elected leaders main role is to represent their own ethnic group above all else, and bring resources back to them, which is a relationship that is the hallmark of failing states, not high functioning ones. — Count Timothy von Icarus
For example, now standardized tests are racist, where once they were a method for excluding bias in university or job selection. How do we know they are racist? Because there is a test score gap. — Count Timothy von Icarus
And yet, if questions on a test are loaded with racial bias, as with the famous "regatta" SAT question, we can identify those with statistical analysis. Indeed, test do employ these methods, and remove from scoring those questions whose answer rate has too strong a correlation with race, and subjects those to further examination for identifying potential sources of bias. — Count Timothy von Icarus
You'd do a lot better looking at how schools are funded than trying to get rid of standardized tests, but I suppose they are low hanging fruit. Indeed, it's ironic since standardized tests are a great way to identify talented individuals who might be preforming well because they are in poor school enviornments, it's exactly the sort of thing you don't want to get rid of. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Recently, the State of Idaho prohibited the teaching of CRT (and Socialism and Marxism for good measure) in its public schools, thereby continuing the American tradition of regulating what is taught and learned by our youth. — Ciceronianus the White
You'd do a lot better looking at how schools are funded than trying to get rid of standardized tests, but I suppose they are low hanging fruit. Indeed, it's ironic since standardized tests are a great way to identify talented individuals who might be preforming well because they are in poor school enviornments, it's exactly the sort of thing you don't want to get rid of.
— Count Timothy von Icarus
So someone came to a wrong conclusion regarding the source of the problem. What's the relation with CRT here? No doubt many wrong things are said by proponents of CRT, but that doesn't necessarily tell me anything about the theoretical framework itself. — Echarmion
I think that public school teachers should not be free to teach whatever they want (I'm thinking mostly intelligent design), but yes, teachers should be allowed to teach some basic things about communication, open-mindedness, and cultural awareness imo. That seems reasonable. And yeah, hardly anyone is going to fight for that on the grounds of free speech. Also I realize now that my OP is a little cringeworthy - CRS doesn't really conflict with liberalism or free speech all that much. — ToothyMaw
I'm liberal to a degree... — Bob Dylan
One man's freedom of speech is another man's indoctrination of radicalism and fundamentalism. — unenlightened
Very interesting! I had not heard of (or had totally forgotten) the British historical link to the SLP - USA. Also hadn't heard about the Fabian - Labour Party link. — Bitter Crank
I did some more thinking, considered your comments and, apart from some racially conscious policies, I don't believe that CRS and liberalism clash. In fact, I don't even think it is that much of a threat to anybody except insofar as it is detrimental to the cause of social justice by framing the issue almost purely in terms of race and by being a little too aggressive. I still maintain that white fragility is a concept fraught with issues (not all whites take defensive moves to avoid racial considerations; whiteness cannot be as homogeneous as it is claimed to be). I also still maintain that hypostatizing whiteness and attributing it to all whites will just reinforce the attitude I originally expressed in the OP; no one wants to think that their very identity is an artifact of someone else's oppression, even if white privilege exists. — ToothyMaw
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