I think that is a typical problem today. People thinking the right information and the right argument is what leadership is about, getting angrier and angrier when no one accepts them as a leader. This comes with education for technology but is not the result of liberal education. — Athena

Yes, liberalism is a strange thing. It’s supposed to generate liberty or freedom but more often than not the opposite seems to be the case.

Isn't that in line with Hitler's road to power? Except Hitler appealed to the people by going throughout the country and finding out exactly what made people angry and then used that information to gain their support. It was not all, his idea imposed on others, but more skillful emotional manipulation. — Athena

Correct. Not everybody is a Hitler or a Stalin, but politics is about power and most of the time to acquire or hold on to power you may have to manipulate public opinion. Different leaders do it in different ways but it can’t be avoided. It’s just bad luck when the leader turns out to be the wrong one.

And I think a recent leader was doing the same thing, only this time strongly opposing socialism, turning socialism into a strong playing card for the opposition. — Athena

Yes, most people may want some socialist policies but they certainly don’t want socialism. And even fewer would want even that if they realized what it entails and where it leads to.

Your explanation is interesting and I am impressed by what communism had to do with giving Hitler power. It is like the US push for socialism and the opposite party pushing against it. People are reacting against each other and excessively willing to follow leaders, like an emotional melee not really an intellectual movement. Hilter was against communism. — Athena

That’s right, communism or “Bolshevism” was a big problem in Germany. Germany had been invaded by Napoleon in the past and was occupied by the Allies after World War I. People knew that Russian Bolshevism was a murderous regime and were terrified. Communist Russia was a backward agricultural country that needed to incorporate Germany into its empire because it needed Germany’s strong industry and economy. Lenin and Trotsky had plans to invade Germany and so did Stalin. The German Right used that to its advantage but it’s hard to see what else it could have done in those circumstances.

Oh my goodness your highlight of this reveals the tragedy of what happened. The American Revolution was a revolution of consciousness. Not exactly all of it was a revolution of consciousness because not everyone was literate. However, many of the leaders were literate in Greek and Roman classics and the philosophy of their time and they did create a new form of government built on an understanding of Athens and Rome. — Athena

Yes, the American Revolution may have had its own flaws, but the Stalinists and Maoists were bloodthirsty savages who were barely human. In Maoist China, people were tortured and killed just for sadistic fun and in many cases they were eaten. Banquets were organized in which people were shot in the head and their heart and liver eaten in a gesture of loyalty to the regime. The Soviets were bad enough but the Maoists were far worse. Cannibalism, in which “class enemies” were killed and eaten for fun, was a widespread problem in Maoist China.

Guangxi Massacre – Wikipedia

That is sad and I don't think he was the only person with a personality/mental disorder that people have followed. Neitzche's superman is appealing to males, but really is that the thinking that is good for civilizations? — Athena

That’s why the Greeks and Romans believed in a sane mind in a sane body (“nous hygies en somati hygiei” or “mens sana in corpore sano”). You can never know what motivates someone until you find out. Personally, I have never understood what people found in Nietzsche and even less in Marx. Look at pictures of them and you instinctively know that something isn’t quite right.

This is what a German police report says about Marx:

“[Marx] leads the existence of a Bohemian intellectual. Washing, grooming and changing his linen are things he does rarely, and he is often drunk. He is frequently idle for days on end […] He has no fixed time for going to sleep or waking up. He often stays up all night and then lies down fully clothed on the sofa at midday, and sleeps till evening, untroubled by the whole world coming or going through [his room]. There is not one clean and solid piece of furniture. Everything is broken, tattered and torn, with half an inch of dust over everything and the greatest disorder everywhere ...”

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/karl-marx-was-pretty-bad-person/

This is confirmed by other witnesses including friends and collaborators.

Oh dear, that is really sad but so typical. Looking back on my observations of life it seems few people learn to handle power well. Of course, I am thinking of what happens in families where the head of a household may be a tyrant because he does not know better or when the woman dominates she may be the tyrant especially in her role as mother. When we do not learn better, we do not do better. This is tragic when the person is in a strong national leadership role. — Athena

Yes, ignorance is the root of all evil. People allow others to come to power without realizing what they are doing. The only antidote to this seems to be what Plato suggested: educate the masses and train leaders to be good and wise rulers. Whether this will ever be achieved is another story, but it seems that we need this now more than ever.

That explanation of the take over of the Soviet Union is fascinating. How many people are aware of the banking and business deals that actually rule the world? We think of our national leaders and perhaps what the masses believe, but the real power and control are not the subject of our news. That is not what the masses are directed to pay attention to. — Athena

It definitely is fascinating. And there is more to it. The Soviets were building a pipeline from Siberia to Europe to sell gas to Germany and other countries. Reagan stopped General Electric from selling the technology to the Soviets and apparently, US intelligence in 1982 sabotaged the project. This is something that even the CIA is supposed to have no knowledge of. What we do know is that the Soviets were running their communist system with technology stolen from America and other capitalist countries. In 1983 the FBI found that one in every three Communist Bloc envoys was a spy. Reagan expelled many of them and other Western countries followed suit. Soviet Russia was not only an “Empire of Evil”, it also was a parasitic entity that was totally dependent on capitalist aid and on economic espionage, as well as on exploiting smaller communist countries, i.e., begging and stealing. Reagan deserves a lot of credit for taking it out. Unfortunately, a lot of people are ignorant of history. They think Reagan was a “bad guy” and Communist Russia was “cool”.

Third of Eastern Bloc Envoys Are Spies, Head of F.B.I. Says - New York Times

Son of a gun, in all these years I have not come across anyone with knowledge of the oil-banking-economy reality. I learned of it through a geologist who wrote "Geodestiny". How did you come to that information? Why did you pay attention to it? — Athena

Well, the way I see it, philosophy teaches us how to think rationally and critically. It sharpens our power of observation and teaches us not to take a piece of information or knowledge at face value but always look at what is behind it. Even if we don’t find the ultimate truth, at least we’ll know more than before. If we follow that path we meet the right people and read the right books. A few good books can be worth more than ten university courses. This is because the education system teaches politically correct knowledge but life is not politically correct and this can result in a dangerous disconnect that puts us on the wrong course.

For Plato and other Ancient Greeks, philosophy was a practical discipline that included politics. Philosophers can’t ignore the real world and lock themselves up in an ivory tower. On the other thread we discussed the military-industrial complex. As I pointed out, the military industry is not an autonomous entity, it depends on resources like oil and steel and is often controlled by those who control the resources. If we look at who controls resources we will find who controls finance, the economy and politics. It isn’t rocket science.