Mod note: removed duplicate post.

The Times of Israel Opinion Piece on Harvard leaderships statement

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/a-plea-for-moral-clarity-and-leadership-at-harvard/

The Statement in question.

https://www.harvard.edu/president/news/2023/our-choices/

Piers Morgan Uncensored: Interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jBgGY2Ww9Q

A reminder our viewers that public debate is about managing perceptions, not about being on the right side. Calm discussions don't make for good TV either.

Here Jews protest against Netanyahu:


https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/protest-outside-defense-ministry-grows-with-calls-for-netanyahu-to-resign/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/16/ifnotnow-jewish-voice-for-peace-protest-groups-white-house-biden
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-11/ty-article/.premium/more-than-10-000-american-jews-express-solidarity-with-israel-at-rally-in-front-of-un/0000018b-1c9e-d08b-adef-1ffe20850000
https://www.tbsnews.net/world/thousands-israelis-protest-against-netanyahu-ahead-election-219646

Here Arabs (Palestinians) protest against Hamas:

















"Double standard" anybody?

While the Iranians (I mean ordinary people):
"Take that Palestinian flag and shove it up your A**!"
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202310090589

Israel suffered the equivalent of seven 9/11's. Any country in that situation is going to retaliate and make sure such attacks can't happen again. Why should we hold Israel to some unrealistic standard that doesn't exist in the real world?

Palestine suffered human rights violations and crimes against humanity under Israeli occupation. Ethnic cleansing, forced displacement, discrimination, apartheid, etc.

All of this has been pointed out by human rights organisations, the UN and the ICJ countless times.

Currently the Palestinians are suffering from collective punishment and indiscriminate bombing at the hands of the Israelis - both of which are also war crimes.

Do you believe Palestinians should be allowed to "retaliate and make sure such attacks can't happen again"?

Do you believe Palestinians should be allowed to "retaliate and make sure such attacks can't happen again"? — Tzeentch

People who attack so as to annihilate their enemies don't wait for permission. They just do it.

But they don't have the capacity to so. They can say they want to make Israel dust, it doesn't matter. Israel IS turning Gaza into dust and is continuing to steal land, effectively making a Palestinian state almost impossible to establish.

The Ayatollah said in the end of times Israel should disappear, right? Bad comment, evil judgment. Israel is making Palestine disappear, massive difference.

Israel seems to be backing off on (much of) a ground incursion. I am not sure if the mobilization was done out of panic, as a political move, or to force Hamas to expose itself by building fighting positions, thus making their forces easier to ID and strike from the air.

Ground raids have occured, with a large weapons cache being displayed earlier. If the air war is effective, that could be another reason to let up. That or I can see why an invasion wouldn't occur until goals are defined. One goal I can think of is the elimination and suppression of Hamas, followed by the return of Palestinian Authority rule to Gaza. This could open the door to new funding for economic development from the Gulf, as Iran would no longer "hold sway," over the territory.

But would Fatah even be credible if it was brought back in this way? It has its own image problems. And Abu Mazen is quite old. What happens when he dies? But, that said, if there was a center left government in Israel after this and Fatah as the one bargaining power, it does seem like a deal for statehood and peace becomes far more likely.


Or it could simply be indecision.

Why should we hold Israel to some unrealistic standard that doesn't exist in the real world? — RogueAI

Some said it was because Israel wasn't a dictatorship, but because it is a democracy (at least of Jews) and it is Western, hence we except more from states that are western democracies. South Africa was also a democracy (for the whites) and not a totalitarian dictatorship when they had Apartheid. And had close ties to the US and the West also. Hence the critique there.

I think because the US is such an ardent and devoted ally to Israel, people in the West who are critical about the West in general are then against Israel, because it does have Apartheid policies towards a minority. If it would be like in the earlier times when the US was actually indifferent about Israel and the main ally of Israel would be still France, this would be much more a debate in France.

We aren't so obsessed with the Kurds, even if there are more Kurds than Palestinians and their situation is even more complicated and they don't have any state too. But with the Kurds, the fight is with Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq. Countries that don't have so close connections to the US as Israel has.

Israel seems to be backing off on (much of) a ground incursion. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Is it so? I think they are quite open about it.

As Biden is coming to town, they naturally don't start the operation yet. Perhaps allow some trucks to pass to Gaza with supplies and get those foreign nationals out of Gaza. At least those Palestinians with US citizenship.

I confess I'm perplexed by the outrage against Harvard's leadership for, it seems, not being sufficiently anti-Hamas and not identifying students so they can be blacklisted by certain corporations. It seems particularly ill-advised to criticize others because they've been insufficiently fervent in their condemnation of Hamas or because they've failed to cooperate in efforts of leaders or corporations to take vengeance against students who are anti-Israel.

:up: :up:

The Ayatollah said in the end of times Israel should disappear, right? Bad comment, evil judgment. Israel is making Palestine disappear, massive difference. — Manuel

He's some kind of Shiite. They have the most bizarre beliefs ever. But there are Christian groups who also think the end of the world has something to do with Israel. I don't know the details.

Or it could simply be indecision. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Biden's coming. Maybe they're waiting for that? Why couldn't they get a whole new crew to run Gaza? Have an election?

I see @ssu was thinking the same thing about waiting for Biden).

Haha! Yeah, those Christians man, they're wild too. We've just become numb to the BS they spew.

Haha! Yeah, those Christians man, they're wild too. We've just become numb to the BS they spew. — Manuel

True.

My best friend from college (who is now dead) was an fanatical Zionist. After he graduated he spent a year in Israel - mostly on a kibbutz in Northern Israel - this was early 1970s.

When he came back he said to me "Eric we blew it" (by "we" he meant the Jews). He said: "We should never have gone into a place with a large hostile population. We should have gone somewhere like Tierra Del Fuego or Newfoundland".

It would make me very happy to be wrong, but I see nothing but an endless cycle of violence.

UN update on available humanitarian aid waiting to go in

:pray:

Your late friend was so right (as history shows), and I agree with you too. How can there be any lasting peace for dispossessors-occupiers-oppressors unless they effectively genocide the Palestinians (like Indigenous peoples in the Americas have been)?

But there are Christian groups who also think the end of the world has something to do with Israel. I don't know the details. — frank

Just don't get Gotterdamerung, Armageddon, and ragnarökkr mixed up. Armageddon is the final battle between good and evil before the Day of Judgment. The biblical hill of Megiddo on the plain of Esdraelon, south of present-day Haifa in Israel, has been reserved for the big event (no date yet). Not sure what will happen to the real estate market afterwards.



I got the picture from an article on Armageddon in Business Insider. Who knew that the end of the world is within the purview of the corporate news magazine.

You can read all about it in the Book of Revelation, at the end of the New Testament. Is the book inspired scripture or coded rant? It has some really great lines in it, but I think it more coded rant than inspired word of god. Just my opinion but memo to Pope Francis: Get rid of it,

Let's hope so.

It has been reported in Israeli media that they have attacked Hezbollah today and they have declared it "a day of unprecedented anger", because it is likely Israel did this to move attention away from the hospital bombing. So it could be that Hezbollah attacks soon, or after Biden leaves.

If that happens, probably no aid will get into Gaza. It's a disaster, not made better by Netanyahu's total incompetence.

We should have gone somewhere like Newfoundland". — EricH

Sure, but then they would have had to put up with bitter and resentful Canadians. Besides, God had already given Newfoundland and Labrador to four Indigenous Peoples: the Inuit, the Innu, the Mi'kmaq and the Southern Inuit of NunatuKavu).

It's helpful to remember that every place on earth worth having has been colonized and recolonized several times over (well, maybe not Tierra del Fuego).

It's not over till the fat lady sings

If that happens, probably no aid will get into Gaza. It's a disaster, not made better by Netanyahu's total incompetence. — Manuel

Hopefully it will get there soon.

What PT says makes sense to me.

The question to ask is, is this mass hysteria or mass schizophrenia, or is is there a cause - by cause I mean a reason, right or wrong - for their actions? — FreeEmotion

I am sympathetic to your views on mass hysteria but not on the psychology of terrorists. In this I think both your take and the PT article are fundamentally mistaken. Psychology is not the place to look, as any psychological survey of terrorists will show random behavioral traits. The answer lies in sociology and in social psychology, in our gut irrational responses on a group, social, and tribal level. It's in the singing, the dancing, and the killing. :fear:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-hamas-war-live-iran-warns-resistance-front-may-attack

• An Israeli strike has killed more than 500 Palestinians at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City, according to Gaza’s health ministry.
• The Israeli military says the bombing – one of the deadliest attacks on a hospital in decades – was the result of a misfired Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket.

The Israeli military says the bombing – one of the deadliest attacks on a hospital in decades – was the result of a misfired Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket. — neomac

Somehow the single most powerful rocket fired from Gaza ever, that could destroy whole buildings, misfired and hit one of the few hospitals in Gaza. The video that captured the explosion didn't show the rocket motor burning or vapor trails in the video, and prior to the explosion in the video you can hear what sounds like the typical incoming missile or bomb, not outgoing fire. Incoming and outgoing projectiles make a different sounds.

Hence this is spin/damage control because Biden is coming to town. Because he might feel it to be annoying or awkward when he has been prepared to give a show of staunch support to Israel and the press will ask about a stupid hospital. Otherwise who cares, according to Netanyahu Gaza is an evil city.

Already the Arab leaders have declined to meet Joe.

Somehow the single most powerful rocket fired from Gaza ever, that could destroy whole buildings, misfired and hit one of the few hospitals in Gaza. — ssu

"Hagari said some 450 rockets fired from Gaza had fallen short and landed inside the Strip within the last 11 days."
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-military-says-no-evidence-direct-hit-gaza-hospital-2023-10-18/

Here the upcoming briefing from IDF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjFTgRnIL_I