Even a century after nations arose nobody spoke about Jews in that way. — Benkei
I'm sure the fantasy that a tribal society invented the nation-state well before it ever existed makes you feel smart because if it gives you an excuse to disagree with me. — Benkei
And the appended links to videos (which you've ignored) do not corroborate Coates' "personal experience" of "the occupied territories"? :chin:What Coates tells us on the other hand is his personal experience, how he did feel when being in the occupied territories etc. — ssu
For example you rarely see the Per Capita of any nation plunge back fifty years. But in Yemen, you can! — ssu
2011: Arab Spring Reaches Yemen
However, until there is a vociferous outcry not only of Israel's "get Hamas no matter what the cost" response to Hamas, but of Hamas and their actions itself, then nothing changes. Perhaps starting with using one’s own population’s lives as a pawn by putting caches of weapons and military command centers as a strategy is one place to start. — schopenhauer1
"The October 7 operation was planned in total secrecy, even other Palestinian factions were not privy to it, let alone resistance movements abroad."
“The international community keeps bringing up Iran and its military plans, but the October 7 attack was a 100% Palestinian operation, planned and executed by Palestinians for the Palestinian cause, it has no relation at all to any international or regional issues.”
"We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it twice and three times. The al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its October 7 onslaught] is just the first time... Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”
In the interview, Hamad says that Israel must be wiped off all “Palestinian lands,” i.e., must be completely annihilated, claiming that its existence is “illogical.”
It could be that the reason Amnesty and B'tselem refer to it as Apartheid is because the international community took action against Apartheid and that is what they believe is needed now.
Where is Hamas supposed to put its weapons, in specially demarcated areas? — FreeEmotion
Sometimes the reasoning is difficult to folllow. — FreeEmotion
was basically saying was that Palestinians need to bolster their moderate voices — schopenhauer1
The best thing Palestinians could do, as a group, is stand up against Hamas - make it clear that the people aren't looking for the destruction of Israel ("from the river to the sea"), and want to negotiate for a 2 state solution, one where Israel can feel confident Palestinians won't allow another Hamas to come to power.
This would never happen, but if it could happen it would fast track Palestinians into having their own sovereign territory. — flannel jesus
Yes.I wondered what happened in 2010. Now I know
2011: Arab Spring Reaches Yemen — FreeEmotion
The best thing Palestinians could do, as a group, is stand up against Hamas - make it clear that the people aren't looking for the destruction of Israel ("from the river to the sea"), and want to negotiate for a 2 state solution, one where Israel can feel confident Palestinians won't allow another Hamas to come to power. — flannel jesus
Ummm.... hasn't that the Palestine Authority already done that? :roll: — ssu
Is "genocide" really the right description? — flannel jesus
You can surely purpose a peaceful solution, but then I don't see that simply as being realistic.I would like to formally retract anything that might be interpreted as a suggestion for Israel or Palestine towards a "solution". — flannel jesus
How about extrapolating the present history into the future?I have no idea what a way forward would even look like. — flannel jesus
They surely aren't a justice state, a democracy and rather corrupt, as people opted to vote in Gaza. But notice, that Hamas fought the PA and then took over Gaza. And yes,Curious, why is Abbas’ four year term 16 years? — schopenhauer1
What do you think I imply as a response?Don’t get me wrong, consequentially, this is infinitely better, but your answer will reveal the contrary situation to what you imply in that response. — schopenhauer1
I wouldn't call the Apartheid-system of control of the Israelis genocide, but clearly a state where every Palestinian understands that they don't have an own independent state. (No Russian soldiers checking my ID when drive to a different town from mine in Finland.)And what did that get them? Slower genocide I suppose. — Benkei
Ethnic Cleansing
Background
United Nations Protection Force (UNPROFOR).
UN Photo/John Isaac
Ethnic cleansing has not been recognized as an independent crime under international law. The term surfaced in the context of the 1990’s conflict in the former Yugoslavia and is considered to come from a literal translation of the Serbo-Croatian expression “etničko čišćenje”. However, the precise roots of the term or who started using it and why are still uncertain.
The expression “ethnic cleansing” has been used in resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly, and has been acknowledged in judgments and indictments of the ICTY, although it did not constitute one of the counts for prosecution. A definition was never provided.
Definition
As ethnic cleansing has not been recognized as an independent crime under international law, there is no precise definition of this concept or the exact acts to be qualified as ethnic cleansing. A United Nations Commission of Experts mandated to look into violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia defined ethnic cleansing in its interim report S/25274 as "… rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area." In its final report S/1994/674, the same Commission described ethnic cleansing as “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”
The Commission of Experts also stated that the coercive practices used to remove the civilian population can include: murder, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial executions, rape and sexual assaults, severe physical injury to civilians, confinement of civilian population in ghetto areas, forcible removal, displacement and deportation of civilian population, deliberate military attacks or threats of attacks on civilians and civilian areas, use of civilians as human shields, destruction of property, robbery of personal property, attacks on hospitals, medical personnel, and locations with the Red Cross/Red Crescent emblem, among others.
The Commission of Experts added that these practices can “… constitute crimes against humanity and can be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, such acts could also fall within the meaning of the Genocide Convention.” — United Nations
My understanding is that it is of vital interest for the West to be committed to a system of alliance between countries that share the same standards and treat each other by the same standards. Israel is a valid ally in that sense. — neomac
I think that Benkei and actually many others, including Western states do have questions if really Israel's standards are the same as ours. — ssu
Many countries in the West don't see themselves as "allies" of either party. — ssu
I question the "vitality" of being an ally here, just as if Iran would be an "existential" threat to the West either. — ssu
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