The degree of personal brutality exceeds anything the IDF has ever considered. Hamas is much, much more brutal then the IDF — BitconnectCarlos
What was the Mandate System of the League of Nations? The Mandate System was devised by the League of Nations after WWI as a method to maintain peace and promote self-determination in territories formerly governed by the Ottoman and German Empires. In reality, the Mandate System was an internationally sanctioned form of colonialism that granted control over much of Africa, the Middle East, and the South Pacific to European powers. — Mandate System
So even war on terror (i.e. against Islamic Jihadism) in the middle east was a political strategic move not just a compulsive reaction, as much as NATO expansion in Europe and inclusive economic globalization (especially addressing potential competitors like Russia and China). All of them were long-term strategies testing the US hegemonic capacity of shaping the world order through hard and soft power, even if it ultimately wasn’t planned and dosed well. Democratization (and economic growth) seemed the best way to go to normalise relations, preserve peace and quell historical grievances (as it happened for Germany and Japan) so the US, after the Cold War, in the unipolar phase, had the time window to think big and take greater risks.
Even terrorist attacks of Islamic jihadism, including the 9/11 attack, aren’t just isolated punitive operations against some past grievance, but steps toward more ambitious ideological goals
At what point do the IDF say we’ve gone to far and stop? — Punshhh
They went with the annexation of the Golan Heights, but I think the annexation of either Gaza or the West Bank will do quite much damage to the Israeli reputation. South Africa style sanctions are a possibility then, especially if large scale ethnic cleansing happens. I think the mood is already changing in the US. The actions now taken do have effects. For example prior to the war in Lebanon in the early 1980's there was lot of support for Israel in Finland and the Finns look at Israel being in a similar situation that they had been before. Then came the massacres of Shabra and Shatila, and many Finnish peacekeepers seeing how Israel conducted it's war in Lebanon.I think you're underestimating Bibi. He does care about what happens next and what happens next is annexation. That's the goal and it has always been that; they don't care about the consequences or what anybody else thinks or believes, because the world, the UN and everybody is against them in their self-proclaimed victimhood. — Benkei
So unless the hostages are returned, the whole population of Gaza is expendable? — Punshhh
It looks to me though, judging from the behaviour of the Israeli administration that the lives of the Population of Gaza are expendable. — Punshhh
One is too many. That limit being blown up on 7 Oct., let us hear no more of it.Simple question, how many Palestinian deaths are too many?
At what point do the IDF say we’ve gone to far and stop? — Punshhh
"Expendable" is maybe not the right word, certainly - obviously - at risk.So unless the hostages are returned, the whole population of Gaza is expendable? — Punshhh
But unfortunately, pure terrorist governments don’t want to fight like this because they’d lose. Raping, kidnapping, and beheading people as a policy of “resistance” will have consequences for the territory they do govern, as long as they hide within that population. It indeed sucks all around.
There is an easy solution here. Israel should provide refugee camps for Palestinian refugees in Israel. — Punshhh
Yeah, too bad Hamas hasn’t learned to kill tens of thousands of people the right way. — Mikie
You side with the team that intentionally murders the innocent. — BitconnectCarlos
Ambiguity. They should provide in Israel refugee camps? Or they should provide refugee camps for refugees that are themselves in Israel?
There may be numerous reasons why Palestinians aren’t in refugee camps in other Arab countries. Firstly the Palestinians say they don’t want to leave Gaza because they won’t be able to return when the fighting stops. Secondly the Israeli’s won’t let them leave. Thirdly the other Arab countries might not want to see Israel push them out of the territory and annex the land as part of Israel. To be seen as complicit in ethic cleansing.But perhaps more significant is that you seem to feel that the Israelis should do something - and there may be lots of reasons why they "should." But the Arab neighbors appear to be completely unwilling to touch the Palestinians with even the proverbial ten-foot pole. Why do you think the Israelis "should" do something and not the Arab neighbors; and by the way, is there anything you think the Palestinians or more to the point Hamas should do?
I doubt that they are the first order of business for Netanyahu. For Hamas they may be a bargaining tool. Personally I would want the hostages to be returned unharmed along with the Palestinian people being left unharmed.And I think you should make unequivocally clear your own view on the hostages. Do you agree with me that the hostages must be the first order of business? Or if not, then what?
Again I don’t see the U.S. having any interests in the Middle East other than the supply of oil from the Arab states and protecting the Western outpost of Israel. They want to maintain the status quo in the area for these reasons. They were happy for Syria to be thrown to the wolves in the fight against Isis and now they are only maintaining a presence in those areas to prevent the rise of Isis in the region over the next period.
As such I don’t see the Middle East as an important arena of geopolitical, or hegemonic tension.
I don’t see any signs of wider conflagration, or broader hegemonic locking of horns, or WW3, resulting from this crisis. Neither the U.S. or China wanted this. — Punshhh
The primary geopolitical game being played currently is by Russia in Ukraine and as far as the West is concerned (geopolitically) that is going nicely in that it is keeping Russia occupied and gradually weakening her. This is also providing the incentive for Europe to re-arm and wean herself of Russian oil and gas. There is however the increased affiliation of Russia with China to consider. However I would expect this to result in a reluctance for war from this coalition once the Ukraine war has played out. This will most likely result in a new Iron curtain dividing Europe from Russia, as I predicted in the Ukraine war thread. Russia will pull back from China when they realise they would be required to sell their soul. — Punshhh
As I said before, why would China enter into a ground war, or dabble with proxy wars, when she is already winning the economic war? — Punshhh
Personally I would want the hostages to be returned unharmed along with the Palestinian people being left unharmed. — Punshhh
But until the hostages are released/accounted for, their being kept seems to me a carte blanche for the Israelis and their IDF. — tim wood
Who could object to that, and why? — tim wood
Their movement had hungered for this moment for years, but now, after Oct. 7, they felt it was just a matter of time before Jews would be living in Gaza again. "It is ours," said David Remer, 18. "[God] said it is ours."
What about the reverse, until Israel stops occupying Palestinian territories, withdraw from Gaza and rebuild all the buildings they've knocked down and paid compensation to the families of all the dead, isn't that carte blanche for Hamas to hang on to the hostages? — bert1
That would be a start. But until the hostages are released/accounted for, their being kept seems to me a carte blanche for the Israelis and their IDF.
You seem very one sided in these comments. What about the crimes committed by Israeli’s in the West Bank and Gaza? Or is it that carte blanche thing again?As well, there are the issues of crimes committed on Israeli territory, the perpetrators subject to Israeli law.
It does all seem to simple.It all seems too simple: release the hostages, surrender criminals, try to move on to peace. Who could object to that, and why?
No less than the Palestinian population is expendable in the pursuit of Hamas’ objectives, right?
Yes, however this is an asymmetrical situation. Israel is an occupying force with state of the art weaponry. Hamas is a small band of terrorists with basic weaponry. — Punshhh
Also the idea that Hamas can spare the population by handing back the hostages and surrendering, or something. Works on the assumption that Israel doesn’t have an ulterior motive, or can be sufficiently trusted. — Punshhh
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