Personally I think fantasies are unavoidable, and in addition they can be enjoyed without causing any harm. It's when one seeks to turn fantasies into reality that problems arise - that is when the mind mistakes its fantasy to be equivalent to reality, and will inevitably suffer when it finds out that this isn't the case.

Personally I had many fantasies about friends' mothers, sisters, etc. Nothing bad about that. The brain is assessing possibilities, and getting a better grasp of the world through these hypotheticals. It's good, it's doing its work, leave it alone, there is no serious problem :P

but I've always been more interested in older women than younger ones — Question

I'm the opposite. More mature isn't better. Immature isn't good either. Innocent is the perfect match though :D

What I don't understand is why is she doing this to me? — Question

For fun! Why not? In high school I had a female teacher - grandmother age actually (her husband was dead) - who used to smack me on my ass when no one was around, and even asked me to go to the movie theatre with her once (of course I didn't). Most of these fantasies are playful in nature, and not serious anyways. It's no problem if it ain't serious, and it's kinda foolish to treat a non-serious occurrence as serious

Personally I think fantasies are unavoidable, and in addition they can be enjoyed without causing any harm. — Agustino

I think you hit the nail on the head. I was right about posting here, as always. *Ehem, needs to become a subscriber*

However, it is cruel and unfair that she is enjoying this whole charade, while I suffer and battle with my emotions. Mind, you it's an unrelenting battle as we live very close and anything she says outside in te backyard I can hear from my room. *Needs to buy double paned windows*

So, why is she doing this? Is this how women are?

It's when one seeks to turn fantasies into reality that problems arise - that is when the mind mistakes its fantasy to be equivalent to reality, and will inevitably suffer when it finds out that this isn't the case. — Agustino

Oh, heaven forbid. I have avoided that lunacy. *Kisses reason*

And for the matter the worst is over. At one time her voice was literally stuck in my head. However, the sentiment and feelings persist. The neurons have fired.

The brain is assessing possibilities, and getting a better grasp of the world through these hypotheticals. It's good, it's doing its work, leave it alone, there is no serious problem. — Agustino

Well, it's causing distress to my reason and vanity of being a perfect stoic along with relinquishing desires as per Buddhism. In other words it's causing me suffering.

I've added more to my previous post.

However, it is cruel and unfair that she is enjoying this whole charade, while I suffer and battle with my emotions. — Question

Well you could enjoy it too if you were playful, instead of serious about it. In many ways you treat it as a reality instead of a fantasy. You don't treat it as something that occurs and has significance only in thought, you treat it as something that has future significance in the real world.

So, why is she doing this? — Question

There's many reasons why she could be doing that. Maybe she feels she's still beautiful if a much younger man is interested in her over other younger women. Maybe she has a fantasy of her own, but is more adept at managing it than you are, etc.

Is this how women are? — Question

I think it depends on the woman. Some women are more in touch with their fantasies than others. Some women are more dominating and seeking to impose their will over the will of others (this latter one I view as immoral, but alas, it exists and is actually quite frequent). Etc.

Well, it's causing distress to my reason and vanity of being a perfect stoic along with relinquishing desires as per Buddhism — Question

Well why do you have to carry in your mind the image of you being a Stoic, or a Buddhist or whatever. Just relinquish the desires - in reality - and keep them in fantasy. That's the best of both worlds. As I previously said - some things can only be enjoyed in fantasy, and would be painful in actual reality.

In high school I had a female teacher - grandmother age actually (her husband was dead) - who used to smack me on my ass when no one was around, and even asked me to go to the movie theatre with her once (of course I didn't). Most of these fantasies are playful in nature, and not serious anyways. It's no problem if it ain't serious, and it's kinda foolish to treat a non-serious occurrence as serious — Agustino

Let's consider this another way:

"In high school this female student had a male teacher - grandfather age actually (his wife was dead) - who used to smack her on the ass when no one was around, and even asked her to go to the movie theatre with him once."

Is this a serious problem?

Well you could enjoy it too if you were playful, instead of serious about it. In many ways you treat it as a reality instead of a fantasy. — Agustino

I would be called sleazy and a pervert. I could even be labeled as a public nuisance and have trouble with the authorities. You're suggesting I slide down that slippery slope.

You don't treat it as something that occurs and has significance only in thought, you treat it as something that has future significance in the real world. — Agustino

Don't understand you here.

There's many reasons why she could be doing that. Maybe she feels she's still beautiful if a much younger man is interested in her over other younger women. Maybe she has a fantasy of her own, but is more adept at managing it than you are. — Agustino

No, I am the one managing it successfully. I have not made advances or compromised my dignity and self in any way.

I think it depends on the woman. Some women are more in touch with their fantasies than others. Some women are more dominating and seeking to impose their will over the will of others (this latter one I view as immoral, but alas, it exists and is actually quite frequent). Etc. — Agustino

I like domineering women that are supportive and nurturing. I always feel that this is the best insurance policy for all situations.

Well why do you have to carry in your mind the image of you being a Stoic, or a Buddhist or whatever. Just relinquish the desires - in reality - and keep them in fantasy. That's the best of both worlds. As I previously said - some things can only be enjoyed in fantasy, and would be painful in actual reality. — Agustino

I just don't believe in fantasies. Life taught me that the hard way. You seem very childish here and in your outlook in life.

Is this a serious problem? — Michael

Only if he forced her or intimidated her, obviously. However, due to the fact that men are generally physically domineering over women - or can be - simply because they are physically stronger, I would say that likelihood is that the female student WOULD feel intimidated, and thus it would always be wrong for a male teacher to smack her ass. When the grandmother smacked my ass it wasn't a problem - because I always knew in the back of my mind that worst comes to worst I can physically dominate her and prevent her from doing something I wouldn't want her to do. But obviously the same may not be the case for the female student.

Only if he forced her or intimidated her, obviously. However, due to the fact that men are generally physically domineering over women - or can be - simply because they are physically stronger, I would say that likelihood is that the female student WOULD feel intimidated, and thus it would always be wrong for a male teacher to smack her ass. When the grandmother smacked my ass it wasn't a problem - because I always knew in the back of my mind that worst comes to worst I can physically dominate her and prevent her from doing something I wouldn't want her to do. But obviously the same may not be the case for the female student. — Agustino

It seems to me that we quite often talk about inappropriate consensual behaviour between teachers and students. Even when the student is an eager participant, it's still said to be wrong.

Is that something you disagree with? Or would you agree that when one party isn't an adult and when the other party is in a position of authority then this amounts to an abuse of power, and so still inappropriate even if there's no force or intimidation.

I would be called sleazy and a pervert. I could even be labeled as a public nuisance and have trouble with the authorities. You're suggesting I slide down that slippery slope. — Question

No, that would be to act on the fantasy in the real world - trying to bring the fantasy into reality. I haven't suggested that.

Don't understand you here. — Question

A fantasy is something that occurs in thought. When you have a fantasy about, say, having sex with your neighbour's wife, you don't REALLY want to have sex with her - you only want to do it in thought. That isn't a problem. It only becomes a problem when you REALLY want to do it in reality.

No, I am the one managing it successfully. I have not made advances or compromised my dignity and self in any way. — Question

You are managing it successfully on the "reality" front, but not on the "fantasy" front. On the fantasy front you suffer because you don't realise that you can enjoy your fantasy as fantasy, without having to make it real.

I just don't believe in fantasies. Life taught me that the hard way. You seem very childish here and in your outlook in life. — Question

No - I don't pretend one should make their fantasy into a reality, or should expect their fantasy to come true. That would be being childish. Being a real man or woman would mean treating it as a fantasy - as a playful series of thoughts - not as something to actually do.

It seems to me that we quite often talk about inappropriate consensual behaviour between teachers and students. Even when the student is an eager participant, it's still said to be wrong.

Is that something you disagree with? — Michael

It depends on the age of the student obviously. In addition to that, I would consider inappropriate as actually trying to kiss the student, or trying to have sex with them, etc. other things aren't really inappropriate.

Or would you agree that when the student isn't an adult and when the teacher is in a position of authority then this amounts to an abuse of power? — Michael

No I wouldn't say that. The distinction between adult and non-adult is fake and artificial to begin with. In addition to this, the only time when being in a position of authority matters is if this authority is used - if say, the student receives worse grades when he/she doesn't give in to the demands of the teacher.

No, that would be to act on the fantasy in the real world - trying to bring the fantasy into reality. I haven't suggested that. — Agustino

Fantasies are the result of unfulfilled desires that inevitably influence conscious thought, would you say not? Let's go a little deeper here and talk about these unfulfilled desires, what do you think is the source of them?

A fantasy is something that occurs in thought. When you have a fantasy about, say, having sex with your neighbour's wife, you don't REALLY want to have sex with her - you only want to do it in thought. That isn't a problem. It only becomes a problem when you REALLY want to do it in reality. — Agustino

You seem to think there is a sharp divide between entertaining fantasies and behavior, that's a fantasy in of itself.

You are managing it successfully on the "reality" front, but not on the "fantasy" front. On the fantasy front you suffer because you don't realise that you can enjoy your fantasy as fantasy, without having to make it real. — Agustino

Gobbledygook. Is there something wrong with being a realist?

No - I don't pretend one should make their fantasy into a reality, or should expect their fantasy to come true. That would be being childish. Being a real man or woman would mean treating it as a fantasy - as a playful series of thoughts - not as something to actually do. — Agustino

Yet, there is no way around the fact that fantasies to some rather large degree dictate behavior. Examples could be pornography, gambling, wishful thinking, etc. All could be considered vices resulting in rather negative behavior.

Fantasies are unfulfilled desires that inevitably influence conscious thought, would you say not? — Question

No, fantasies aren't unfulfilled desires at all - they are the result of desires, but they aren't themselves desires. Rather fantasies are a way of temporarily fulfilling desires. While having the fantasy of having sex with your neighbour's wife, you are actually fulfilling that desire - while the fantasy lasts - without any of the negative consequences that would actually be associated with really having sex with your neighbour's wife.

You seem to think there is a sharp divide between entertaining fantasies and behavior, that's a fantasy in of itself. — Question

No it's not a fantasy at all, only realising that what you think, doesn't necessarily have to affect how you behave. This is a big thing in the treatment of OCD - the fact you think you may have contracted germs from touching that door handle, doesn't really mean that you have contacted germs from touching it. OCD is an affection of those who cannot really separate fantasy from reality, and who blur the line between the two of them. Many mental conditions have this structure.

Yet, there is no way around the fact that fantasies to some rather large degree dictate behavior. Examples could be pornography, gambling, wishful thinking, etc. All could be considered vices resulting in rather bad behavior. — Question

All are vices because they involve mistaking fantasies for reality, just like a person suffering of OCD mistakes their fantasy of having contracted a disease from touching so and so with the reality of having contracted the said disease. As a mind becomes stronger and more wise - which generally happens with age - it becomes capable of distinguishing fantasy from reality, and not blurring the line between the two.

No, fantasies aren't unfulfilled desires at all - they are the result of desires, but they aren't themselves desires. Rather fantasies are a way of temporarily fulfilling desires. — Agustino

I edited that post, in saying they are the result of unfulfilled desires. You sidestepped the issue and avoided answering the question.

Let's go a little deeper here and talk about these unfulfilled desires, what do you think is the source of them? — Question

That is the question.

No it's not a fantasy at all, only realising that what you think, doesn't necessarily have to affect how you behave. This is a big thing in the treatment of OCD - the fact you think you may have contracted germs from touching that door handle, doesn't really mean that you have contacted germs from touching it. OCD is an affection of those who cannot really separate fantasy from reality, and who blur the line between the two of them. Many mental conditions have this structure. — Agustino

If you want a term for it, it's called reality testing and the causes for the lack (schizophrenia) or even excess of it (autism) are complex to say the least. And quite frankly most fantasies are unrealistic and detrimental to mental health.

As a mind becomes stronger and more wise - which generally happens with age - it becomes capable of distinguishing fantasy from reality, and not blurring the line between the two. — Agustino

Funnily enough, they can then entertain some of their deepest fantasies from youth via retirement funds and they then realize (hopefully) what were the most important things in life.

Let's go a little deeper here and talk about these unfulfilled desires, what do you think is the source of them? — Question

It's the nature of man's mind to desire. The mind cannot stop desiring unless it stops being a mind. Fulfilment is structured such as it can never be final.

If you want a term for it, it's called reality testing and the causes for the lack (schizophrenia) or even excess of it (autism) are complex to say the least. And quite frankly most fantasies are unrealistic and detrimental to mental health. — Question

Why do you think fantasies, in and of themselves, are detrimental to mental health? Someone with no fantasies is mentally ill I would claim.

It's the nature of man's mind to desire. The mind cannot stop desiring unless it stops being a mind. — Agustino

Desires can be limited and restrained. You really don't like Buddhism or Stoicism...?

Why do you think fantasies, in and of themselves, are detrimental to mental health? Someone with no fantasies is mentally ill I would claim. — Agustino

Not really. Such people are called sages and such, get my drift?

Desires can be limited and restrained — Question

In what sense? I limit desires when I don't act on them, but not acting on them doesn't mean ceasing to have them.

You really don't like Buddhism or Stoicism...? — Question

I don't like Buddhism, but I do like Stoicism. The thing is my Stoicism is active - and not passive. Remember the Roman Stoics were all encouraged to have public lives, in the service of their communities. Seneca was the richest man in Rome. Aurelius was Emperor. Cicero was an important politician, etc. Stoicism isn't about renouncing desire, but putting desire in its proper place. For example, one still desires X, but one is conscious of whether or not X is possible at the moment, and if it's not possible, then one stops demanding it, although they don't stop desiring it.

Not really. Such people are called sages and such, get my drift? — Question

A sage isn't someone with no fantasies, but rather someone who controls their fantasies, rather than having their fantasises control them. Controlling a fantasy is keeping it as a fantasy instead of attempting to bring it into reality. Furthermore, someone without any fantasy is insane - he is mentally ill.

Usually, mental illness is put on one side of the spectrum and on the other side of the spectrum is mental health. I propose that this is an inadequate model. In truth, madness is both on the left and on the right of the spectrum. Sanity isn't the opposite of madness - it doesn't escape the mad spectrum - but it is a certain kind of insanity - the balanced position in the middle. That position is marked neither by the absence of fantasies, nor by the domination of fantasies over the person. That position is marked by the domination of the person over their fantasies.

"I fell in love with my neighbors wife."

These things happen in the real world. Sometimes we act and sometimes we do not. The strange things that happen in life might be fun, upsetting, inconvenient, a lark, unthinkable, too stupid for words, the chance of a lifetime... all sorts of possibilities. One of the strange things that could happen has happened, and you have not acted on it. Almost certainly in this case, not acting is the better thing.

"Falling in love with the wrong person and not acting on it" doesn't mean that the whole thing will just disappear like the morning mists. Oh, no. We have all these emotions, ideas, fantasies, memories... and they haunt our waking hours. But this too happens in real life.

We just have to soldier on, doing what we think is right, or covering our losses when we do what we think is wrong. Deal with it as best you can.

You left out a number of facts, so I'm going to recite the facts you've said as well as what I assume them to be. If I'm wrong, let me know where.

You have a neighbor who is a swinger. She is married to someone else. She sexually propositioned you. She followed up with phone calls. You timidly withdrew from any conversation with her. You think you love her. You think about her all the time. You like older women. She wants you to treat her like her mother yet have sex with her. You're embarrassed by the situation. You don't know what her angle is.

Here are my conclusions: (1) She wants to have sex with you. (2) Her sexual behavior is deviant. (3) You find her sexuality enticing. (4) You think you love her.

There are three ways to end this: (1) have sex with her and fulfill both of your fantasies so that you can realize that you really don't love her and you can have that empty, weird, unsatisfied feeling of regret that accompanies making a mistake, (2) go out and get a normal girlfriend and have a normal relationship so that your hormone infused brain isn't focused on what you know to be a bad idea, or (3) convincingly reject her.

If you're going to do #3, do be convincing because if she thinks it's staged, she'll just fuck with you more. A good way to make it clear is to show up at her doorstep with your mother and maybe another neighbor and lay into her.

Whatever you do, I would suggest neither of the three plans proposed by Hanover to address the current situation >:O

Your problem is in the title. You've fallen into love, and not risen into it.

Your problem is in the title. You've fallen into love, and not risen into it. — Heister Eggcart

Can you rise into love with your neighbour's wife? :-}

As long as it's not her ass right? That would be bad...

Nope, >:O

You can come up into my ass anytime, Wossy.

You can come up into my ass anytime, Wossy. — Heister Eggcart

Oh dear... "Come"? In what way? >:)

He can lay a new roof on my cheeks.

Dayum man... like this...

I pervert every thread I come into don't I...sigh.

You have a neighbor who is a swinger. She is married to someone else. She sexually propositioned you. She followed up with phone calls. You timidly withdrew from any conversation with her. You think you love her. You think about her all the time. You like older women. She wants you to treat her like her mother yet have sex with her. You're embarrassed by the situation. You don't know what her angle is. — Hanover

Yup, pretty much that all. Quite a predicament. I should add though this will seem wrong to say, she's also bipolar and something else which keeps her at home cooped up most of the time. I have spoken with a neighbor who lives right next door and I confirmed most of what I said with him. I also know as a fact that while I was on vacation some time ago, they had some porn shoots or whatever at their house (in a suburban neighborhood!) and got called on by the police. They took things too far when women were walking in half naked wardrobes in front of their street. On a summer before that they had sex in their backyard while sounding drunk or high on cocaine, which my neighbor next door grunted his teeth and also 'heard' or 'witnessed' (nobody did anything unfortunately). I also figured out that her husband works in the adult entertainment industry even before that incident with the police, and that just confirmed my suspicions. He seems to have joined this game and doesn't stop his wife, which is becoming more audacious with her deviant behavior. I find them a very weird couple, almost displaying psychopathic traits with four adorable children. I worry often for their kids over what they're doing, but that's me just trying to be savior of the world. Their kids love me and often tease me about being a 'hermit' as I like to stay in my home most of the time. They called me a 'rat' at one time, which I found rather cute. Some of them even treat me as if I were their brother and their daughter, I think, likes me but she's too young for me, kinda insane but true. That's the whole spiel. So, in a way I knew they're fucking with me hard for their own reasons; but keep turning the other cheek.

There are three ways to end this: (1) have sex with her and fulfill both of your fantasies so that you can realize that you really don't love her and you can have that empty, weird, unsatisfied feeling of regret that accompanies making a mistake, (2) go out and get a normal girlfriend and have a normal relationship so that your hormone infused brain isn't focused on what you know to be a bad idea, or (3) convincingly reject her. — Hanover

Yeah, 1 has been ruled out. 2, well I have my own issues as berated here about leading an aesthetic life. 3, is almost entirely impossible. She knows I love her, I know she loves me (I seriously doubt she's wicked and twisted to torture me so, as it was really bad in the past, though I might be wrong here, who knows?), I just like hearing her voice next door. She has a rather pretty voice.

She knows I love her, I know she loves me — Question

She most certainly does not love you. Most certainly. Sorry. She has a very complicated psychological profile that we'll be unable to fully decipher here without more information, but she's not just weird and quirky, but she has a personality disorder. In one paragraph you pointed out that she abuses drugs and alcohol, has a sex addiction, fails to conform to basic societal standards, and lacks a maternal instinct. You even referenced what you perceived to be psychopathic traits, and then you claimed she loved you, as if psychopaths love anybody. If she doesn't care about her kids, why would she care for you?

(I seriously doubt she's wicked and twisted to torture me so, as it was really bad in the past, though I might be wrong here, who knows?), — Question

It's likely that she's just doing whatever she feels like doing without regard for your feelings one way or the other. She's heavily medicated on drugs, alcohol, and sex, escaping whatever snakes are slithering around in her head. You're just another quick fix for her. Stop painting some normal picture of her behavior as being loving and caring. It's not.

Good Lord.