But what if this is just the natural course of history? — TaySan

There is no such thing as a "natural" curse of history. History is a human conception. The "unnatural" - that which is created by a self-aware awareness is what gives anything any meaning.

I think that you have a great idea for a thread because climate change, the pandemic, social inequalities are such big issues. I think that many in the world probably feel so overwhelmed by the immensity of all these problems.

I am of the view that we should most certainly do our best to address these problems. The biggest difficulty is that life is so unpredictable. For example, a couple of years ago no one would have expected the last year's events of the pandemic. It appeared as remote virus in China, and swept across the globe, affecting so many lives, and, even now, we don't know what is going to happen next. Nature will take its course, but are we just going to be swept along like passengers on a train which is about to crash?

So, the problem is that life is not always as predictable as we expect, but perhaps we need to wake up to this, and do our best individually, and on a social level to try to address the problems which are upon us.

Forgive me, but could you elaborate? Are you denying the validity of historical evidence?

The "unnatural" - that which is created by a self-aware awareness is what gives anything any meaning. — Echarmion

This is really vague. Can you make it more specific? I have no idea what it means.

Forgive me, but could you elaborate? Are you denying the validity of historical evidence? — TaySan

I'm saying there is no one course of history that is more "natural" than any other. History is a thing that exists inside the minds of sentient creatures. It doesn't really make sense to apply the term "natural" to a mental concept like "a course of history".

This is really vague. Can you make it more specific? I have no idea what it means. — TaySan

I could try with a metaphor: We are the universe looking back at itself.

Without conscious beings to experience the world, what is the world good for?

Thank you. Lately it feels like I've always been overwhelmed by life. I grew up in a culture of denial. A bubble. It was pleasant until it burst. And when you realize people refer to the 19th century as the previous one..... well you want to run away and hide.

I admire people who can stay socially engaged no matter what. During the refugee crisis I volunteered for a Syrian family. They were rich, they didn't come by boat or train. They simply bought a plane ticket from Damascus to Amsterdam. Dishonest but can you blame them for wanting a better life? They got a free house but didn't want the cheap furniture and didn't like the paint. It was a hard lesson for me. I decided to withdraw; my heart couldn't take it.

No one knows the future. I'm sure humanity as a species will survive. 7 billion people means a lot of us will continue suffering to a psychiatric degree. That is really not okay, but it's not my call to make.

So yes, I agree, we should do whatever we can to address the problems.

I have always worried about the state of the world, but often feel a bit powerless. I have been on various marches and try to keep as politically aware as possible.

I do think that we need to be aware of what the scientists say, but it does seem that climate change is escalating. Even with the pandemic, it seems that so many new variants are arising that it is difficult to know how effective the vaccines will be.

I find it easy to get demoralised, as it does seem that nature is bringing us some tough things. At times, I do fear for the fate of humanity, not just through climate change but war and nuclear destruction.

But, I try to keep positive, as I do believe that we can make a difference individually in some ways. I do believe that there are many people in the world who do wish to work positively to try to sustain a planet which is inhabitable for future generations. One of the biggest dangers may be if we start to see ourselves as being the last of humanity, possibly creating a self fulfilling prophecy, and just focusing on our own survival needs recklessly. But, of course, this is complex when people are struggling and suffering in our times.

Thanks. So humans are the self-awareness that give the world meaning. That's what you're trying to say, right? I agree to the extent that I'm human and create meaning for my own life. That can be deduced.

When talking about the universe I struggle with a definition. Is it the cosmos, a multiverse, space, existence, all? And how can we ever find out, since light can only travel so far? But maybe it's not relevant.

Then there is the term sentience. Which beings are sentient and which aren't?!

Regardless, you make a good point. History or the past is a mental concept. I hope we can discover its
(ir)relevance for us.

I find your thread is important but I do wonder about its title. It queries whether nothing is wrong. Of course, it's your thread but the wording of your title does not seem powerful enough to me, because rather than the question of whether we could say nothing is wrong, we could even go in the other way, and ask is everything wrong?

Thanks. I'll think about your words. This thread is far from over

I most certainly hope that your thread is far from over, because from my perspective you are raising important questions. I wonder if you should have put 'poll' in the title. I am just raising questions about your title because I do think that the topic could have received more replies rather than just from myself and one other person. However, it may be that the responses we get do depend partly on the dynamics of the forum at any given moment. But, at least this response will keep it in the agenda for now...

. Exactly ... If nothing is wrong then there are no problems to be solved ...

. That's a Good logic ... very well ...

. You must be a logician ... XD

. BUT ... No ... there is no If's ... If's exist not ... don't live in the If's world ...

. In fact ... you're the only problem ... you ... as a human being ... who is not ... are a problem ...

. Life has always been the way it is ... nothing has changed ...

. There is an old wise dictum which is stated - "Everything under the sun ... is old ... everything is as it is ... " (full stop) ...

. Your corruptions ... your cunning mind ... are not new ... they are as old as the ocean itself ...

. Nothing is wrong with Life ... Life ... as such ... is perfect ... if you cannot see that Life is perfectly imperfect ... if you cannot see it ... that's because you're the problem ... Life is an evolution ... so it cannot be perfect ... (yes ... I did contradict myself ... just the mediocres do not contradict themselves ... they think in terms of the extremes ... Life does not moves by extremes ... the so-called logicians are one-dimensional ... but ... Life is multidimensional ... Life is a paradox) ...

. The sun exists ... but the moon does exists too ... The sun won't say ... "You fool ... you cannot exist because I do exist" ... No friend ... Existence is not the way a logician thinks it is ...

The natural course of history is that spiders eat flies. The problem for the spider is how to catch a fly, and the problem for the fly is how to avoid the spider's trap. If you know who you are, you know what your problem is, and if you have no identity, you have no problem.

But generally, people who claim there are no problems are pretending not to be spiders, so watch out little fly!

I don't know. But I don't think you can change the title anyway. Or do you know a way?

It might take some time for people to respond. I'm certainly one of those people who takes his sweet time. It'll be alright :strong:

Many people may wish to wonder about the role of nature, and our ability to work with it, for worse or better. Some people write threads and get no replies whatsoever, and it is probably a bit of the law of the jungle here on this site, as in the world of nature which you describe. But, I am inclined to think your question of nothing being wrong is not strong enough, because many can see so much which is calling for attention.

Some ot these issues may be connected to ones being addressed within the one focusing on science.I find that each time I write a thread discussion, some of the issues are already being explored in other threads already, I do believe that yours is important for considering the question of how we should consider our role in trying to find solutions to the problems which face the human race, in the struggle for survival.

But generally, people who claim there are no problems are pretending not to be spiders, so watch out little fly! — unenlightened

:up:

Don't get caught in a web of lies

I think the worlds problems has always been there, countless people have been affected by climate change, racism (systematic/institutionalised) for years but many have an insular attitude as it does not directly effect them.

I think more recently, the power of social media has boosted the presence of these topics and information has been more accessible than previous years or generations.

I do not believe in a natural course of history either, that makes it sound like things are predetermined, and for me personally I would like to use my free will to fight against all inequalities and climate change...

I see it as improper use of memory. Before the Internet we used to think, feel and act differently. We lived our lives 100 % offline, because there was no online. Now it's suddenly a problem when Wi-Fi isn't working. There was no Wi and there was no Fi !

It's like Flat-Earth theory. Even if God would stomp on the world it wouldn't look like a pancake. It's absurd.

But what I'm interested in is mediocrity and non-mediocrity. Many people I know, feel inferior in some way. Some express it honestly, others rage with denial. And when I'm having a bad day everything looks evil.

What is it that distorts our self-worth to the extent of annihilation? Or rather, what isn't?

I do believe that yours is important for considering the question of how we should consider our role in trying to find solutions to the problems which face the human race — Jack Cummins

I do believe so too. It's the reason I haven't voted on the poll yet (which is now in the title). I really don't know my point-of-view.

I have my practical reasons to write the things I write. Many people are acting as if things can't get any worse. Personally I believe things will get MUCH worse. I'm referring to global (Earth) consciousness.
There are still people like Elon Musk and Taylor Swift who are positively creating a better world. When all celebrities lose hope, then we should really start to worry.

I don't know if it will ever get that far. For now we're still in a pandemic with no end in sight. Bad for humans, good for everything else on Earth. Life here has never been so happy.

So I'll consider improvements for the OP. Thanks!

It's good to hear from you! :D And your comment is really appreciated!

many have an insular attitude as it does not directly effect them. — Charlotte Thomas-Rowe

I don't know if that's the reason. When I moved from the city to rural suburbs a lot of people were gossiping, slandering and insulting me. Turns out it's the second most racist town in the region. When people call me gay I just think: Is that supposed to be a bad thing? But when people threaten you because you're a 'stupid immigrant' it becomes nasty. I don't define myself in such ways but apparently others do.

I would like to use my free will to fight against all inequalities and climate change... — Charlotte Thomas-Rowe

As a writer you have the power to do that. You're an amazing artist and poet, capable of producing good quality in a short amount of time. That's a gift. You can inspire millions of people!

Who knows what the future holds? Keep the faith :pray:

so I travel around Europe as I play basketball professionally and I often find myself in rural towns like the ones you just described, the last one being Bosnia and Herzegovina. I would have photos taken of me, I was followed and called racial slurs, people would stare at me and I think you get the picture...

Nevertheless, when I was speaking about people having an attitude, I meant more in sense that “social class” could allow the rich to not care about homelessness or poverty stricken regions as they have never experienced it or been around it in their rich neighbourhoods.

I think it is awful that people would call you those things, I’m sorry it happened. For those kind of people I wouldn’t say it’s due to insularity but rather stupidity mixed with xenophobia. What complete morons.

I would love to use my writing to educate, however, I do not think I am that gifted, though, thank you

I will just say that even though I was partly about where is life was going it was not intended to be in competition to yours because I thought about it before I read yours and mine was meant to be more of a general reflection on the human condition.

I got involved in discussion earlier on the topic of ecological problems in the thread on science. I think that it is unfortunate that we wrote our threads at the time when the thread on science is going. will say that as much as I want to see an end to the pandemic I am not convinced that it will truly be over for many years.

I think you're doing fine. You check in a lot of times per day. Without active threads, days go by without me logging on. Doesn't mean I'm not reading though.
You're just more of an active listener!

I'll check out your Gauguin later. No guarantee for response though. :)

But for example: our conversation about music is still in the back of my head. I think about it daily. Just don't feel like I've anything important to say. If I do I'll reply, for sure.

Failures are the building blocks for the road to success. Even if they shout that you're a loser, it's still you who has the power to prove them wrong. And most importantly, prove it to yourself.

I know you're into psychology. Jacques Lacan's theories about mirroring have helped me a lot. Also some of Alfred Adler's work on superiority/inferiority.

Maybe you should take a short break from the Forum. Just to clear your head. Take a train to somewhere, go into nature, I don't know! Just relax, it's gonna be alright :cool:

Yes, we're both still in there. I sometimes do try to take breaks from the forum, but I do find that if I haven't got a thread going I feel that something is missing. However, that is probably because of life in lockdowns. There is a lot of easing in England at the moment, but it does seem that the Indian variant is increasingly in England at the moment.

I don't know how the pandemic and lockdown restrictions are where you are. But, we are not used to all of this. If we have to have any more lockdowns I don't know how many will cope. In some ways, I believe that I have felt able to cope, because I love reading and writing. But, probably some people have really struggled, especially if they don't like spending any time alone. If anything, I am getting so used to being alone that I worry how I will cope with going to social events again. But, if there are more lockdowns, I think that it will bring so much poverty. It is definitely a big challenge, whether we view it as being the course of nature or not.

Just do what you have to do. It's all a political game: They officially closed the Dutch-Belgian border last year. After some time people started discovering that law was not being enforced. They didn't want to use the army. So if you had a car you could still travel and work.

I don't know what the current rules are. I'm not following the news. If there's something significant you'll find out soon enough. It's quiet here on the streets, really quiet. It's scary and pleasant at the same time.

You know what, I don't know. I'm just doing what I have to do to survive.

You're welcome. And I'm sorry you had to go through that in Bosnia & Herzegovina. It's not okay

I remember the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. When they showed images of homeless people being removed to make room for the 'happy couple' I turned off the TV. Recently Meghan has come out in an interview with Oprah Winfrey about racism in the Royal Family of England. With their colonial history it's no wonder they're doing everything to cover up the past.

Europe is moving on and if Britain ever wants to rejoin the EU, they have a lot of things to fix.

You have no idea about the extent which people have gone to, to harm me. It's pure evil Charlotte, pure evil. Anyway, I guess we're all sinners and I'm probably not much better.

I still think we're gifted though. Don't lose faith in yourself. Take care

I would disagree with Europe moving on (if it’s in terms of racism) as every country I have lived in I have experienced extreme racism.

England is more covert than the rest, though london is multi-cultural the racism still runs very deep. There has been loads of hate crimes against Asians during the pandemic.. I could go in forever, this world is very dark but I hope things get better for you!

We are moving on. It's just really hard. There are many times I don't believe in the future of Europe and the EU. But what choice is there? We're moving towards continental unification, whether people like it or not. Gotta have broad shoulders.

I'm glad there's at least one other person in the world who can see that this world is very dark. And if we all start to realize that the sun always shines at night, it would be a gigantic leap forward.

Thank you, I hope things will get better for all of us.

"If nothing is wrong, then there are no problems to be solved"

If nothing is wrong then isn't that anarchy?