If the truth is reliable and valid then one should accept it. I don’t know anyone who uses doubt as a foundation. Doubt is more of a tool in philosophy, part of a method.
I agree there is some wishy washy pointless philosophy that appeals to a certain kind of intellectual sado-masochistic philosopher type bit painting with that broad brush means you miss out in the good things about philosophy, like ethics and critical thinking.

@DingoJones I don't see how ethics is really addressed by philosophy. There is no agreement.
Critical thinking is available to anyone,not the exclusive province of philosophers.
Philosophers can't even agree on what truth is.

The truth of something requires no agreement. Whether or not someone agrees something is true has no bearing on whether or not its actually true.
If you want to learn about ethics philosophy is one source for that. For really deep ethical questions I would say its the best source.
Likewise with critical thinking, yes it is something that everyone possesses or makes use of on some level but if you want to learn about critical thinking you should read some philosophy, or do some philosophy.

@DingoJones No,the truth doesn't require agreement.
But which philosopher has attained truth then? Especially when many are diametrically opposed.
Tell me practically,give me some ethical and philosophical truths you heve gleaned during your critical journey?

But there are those who have no trauma and no doubt and are fully confident. They don't need testing through doubt. Their confidence already expresses their trustworthiness.
They look upon philosophers as either neurotic or going through trauma. — Mystic

People who haven't been seriously tested yet should be grateful for that, and not look down on those who've been tested.

Life is some kinda test. Darwinian, economic or godly, pick an type of test you like best, but it's a kind of test. And rest assured that your turn will come. And you will cope with it the way you can.

Of course, there is something beautiful about innate grace. Most kids seem to have it originally, and then life chips at it progressively. The children who die young become angels. Those who survive become devils. (Mohamed Choukri - Bread Alone)

While some people live a rather protected life and can keep their innocence longer, generally being an adult means to be able to cope, more or less, with some amount of trouble, and that often takes away facile confidence.

It's when the going gets tough that the tough get going.

@Olivier5 But the "trouble" is not necessarily philosophical. It's just economics,karens and government interference.

But which philosopher has attained truth then? Especially when many are diametrically opposed. — Mystic

Well I wouldn’t say there is one philosopher who gets it all right, but from Decartes to Harris I’ve learned not just things which I think are true but useful methods for thinking as well.
If two philosophers have diametrically opposed views, one or both are wrong. Just like with anything else.

Tell me practically,give me some ethical and philosophical truths you heve gleaned during your critical journey? — Mystic

Like I said Decartes “I think therefore I am”. Thats true. Utilitarianism is a decent ethical system and learning about where it is weak helped form my own ethical framework. Being exposed to ethical philosophy in general has helped form my own ethical framework. Ethical dilemmas like the Trolley Problem challenge peoples pre-conceived notions of ethics and morality and test them.
Ive come to conclusions about ethics, meaning, religion, spirituality, society and people through philosophy. Most of it is of practical value in my life.

@DingoJones That's pretty fair comment.
I'm not a fan of utilitarianism or the trolley problem as they are too contrived.
Descartes cogito is correct. But blatantly obvious anyway.
No proof needed for existence! He could have said feelings equally validly. And the cogito should also apply to other minds and matter as well.
I'm not saying you can't benefit from philosophy but I would give YOU the credit rather than the philosophers or philosophy you mentioned.

Its both me AND the philosophy. :wink:
If my comment seemed fair to you then maybe your problem is less with philosophy and more with the philosophers themselves when they make appeals to philosophical authority? Beginners in philosophy are often snarky and arrogant about the new tools and ideas they are given through philosophy for example.
That happens, and it is indeed obnoxious but I wouldnt say representative of all philosophy.

@DingoJones Well,I don't see a difference between philosophy and philosophers. And many indeed appeal to authority. In general it is extremely rare I have come across a philosopher who is genuine rather than an arrogant fool.

Arrogant fools are abundant whatever kind of person you are talking about.

@DingoJones Yes. But the amount of genuine philosophers is exceedingly rare for a field that prides itself on critical thinking and "truth."

Im not sure what criteria you are using in that assessment but cannot agree. That simply hasnt been my experience.

@DingoJones Name some "great" philosophers who weren't claiming they had discovered the secret which had eluded all others?

After much philosophical reflection, La Rochefoucauld concluded that self esteem is the reason why we do most of what we do. We want to feel proud of ourselves, so even when we think we are being generous and selfless, we still unconsciously look at ourselves in the mirror saying "ain't I look good?" — Olivier5

I love it. It's so dark! It's not untrue. There's something we're responsible to in our thoughts - and it's not clear what that is. I conceive of "it" in terms of the truth value of a scientific understanding of reality, and sustainability as a value, as objective as is possible to be - in that one must exist in order to have values! It's the principle value! Existence - at stake! If in that regard alone there might be dispensation from the Gods to look to a scientifically valid prospect for a prosperous and sustainable future, then Amen! The energy is there, we need it. It will work. please!

How dark is that?

@counterpunch You couldn't resist could you!!!

counterpunch You couldn't resist could you!!! — Mystic

I shouldn't resist. That's the point. And yet I'm enormously careful in my fearless investigations - I have no desire to turn the apple cart upside down. I like apples! I want more apples! More carts! And I want them sustainably - and that's not too much to ask!

But the "trouble" is not necessarily philosophical. It's just economics,karens and government interference. — Mystic

1. Everything is philosophical when you dig deep enough. Why did you chose Karens? Why are Karens seen as real bad right now in the US? What's the zeitgeist here?

2. There's also human tragedies of all kinds: disease, accidents, crimes. The list is long. People often try to make sense of what happens to them.

@Olivier5 This is just reductionism.
Before karens it was sheep and before then idiots or whatever. No zeitgeist. Common sense observation and experience.
Yes,we make sense of things,that's human,not the province of book philosophy.

Again, the same could be said of any discovery anyone makes. They are finding something no one else did, thats the nature of a discovery not philosophy.
What happened to you? Did a rabid band of philosophers kill your parents or something? Did you just come to this forum to slam the great philosophers? Thats fine if you did, thats what everyone else does here just without forsaking philosophy altogether.
I don’t think the points you’ve made so far have done much to show your claims about philosophy are true, but by making those claims and asking questions you are playing the part of Socrates perfectly.
Thats philosophy and Im sorry to be the one to break this to you but you are doing philosophy, you are in fact a philosopher.

Mr Jones seems to be a voice of reason :-)

Not everything is as it seems, but thank you.

Not everything is as it seems, but thank you. — DingoJones

I quite agree on the deceptions of the human and his/her mind and heart.

Its a depressing trait of the human condition.

Its a depressing trait of the human condition. — DingoJones

Yes.

Yes,we make sense of things,that's human,not the province of book philosophy. — Mystic

Well, if your critique is aimed as academic philosophy, I share your doubts, but people do philosophy all the time in their lives. Even "academic philosophers generally suck" is a sort of philosophy.

@Olivier5

To let you know Mystic seems to have been banned as well.

Ah, you lasted a long time.

How dark is that? — counterpunch

Someone should start a thread on what is your darkest philosophical thought.

That may be our loss; she was a combative philosopher.