Emotions as voluntary? Well, it's like this: I can't choose whom I love but I can choose whom I marry.

Great work editors!
:up:

If that makes you feel better, carry on.

Given a desire to think about X, I can directly think about X.
Given a desire to feel Y, I cannot directly act to satisfy this desire. Instead I have to do things like go to therapy.

Do you acknowledge this difference? How do you account for it? — hypericin

The way I see it , the desire IS the feeling. Why do I say this? Because a mood is always pointing ahead of itself every moment of experience. The mood isn’t just about our current assessment of a situation. It also anticipates ahead and in this way forms our desires. Our happiness is looking to continue and deepen itself. Our grief is looking for relief or escape. So try desire isnt a blind urge. It is a meaning intention that partially shapes what we think. The context of our immediately previous thinking and feeling and desiring predisposes us toward our next thought. We can liken this to the way perception works. 90% of what we see when we look at a thing like a table isnt out there but what is filled in via our expectations. What we expect to see comprises much of what we do see. Let’s say I try to free associate. This would seem to be an exercise in pure voluntarism. But as the psychoanalysis have shown, it reveals much about our desires and expectations.

This seems plainly untrue.

• I feel grief. I desire to be happy. If the desire *was* the feeling, this desire would fulfill itself immediately,
• I desire something, and feel pain by the absence of its fulfillment. Its fulfillment brings me pleasure. Here the desire is linked to a feeling which is the opposite of its fulfillent.
• I desire something, and anticipate happiness in its fulfillment. Its fulfilment leaves me feeling empty.

While desire is *a* feeling, and is often closely bound with the feeling of its fulfillment, in the ways you point out, it hardly seems identical with the feeling of its fulfillment.

If that makes you feel better, carry on. — skyblack

Yes DK, your arguments are just too devastating, to the point that I had to call in some favors from the moderators to edit your posts, and I can valiantly pretend you didn't crush me with your brilliance.
If this belief makes *you* feel better.. carry on!

This seems plainly untrue.

I feel grief. I desire to be happy. If the desire *was* the feeling, this desire would fulfill itself immediately,
I desire something, and feel pain by the absence of its fulfillment. Its fulfillment brings me pleasure. Here the desire is linked to a feeling which is the opposite of its fulfillent.
I desire something, and anticipate happiness in its fulfillment. Its fulfilment leaves me feeling empty. — hypericin

You’re right. If desire always fulfills itself, there would be no experience of negative emotions. I should instead say that desire connects us up with new experience that either fulfills or fails to fulfill our desire. There could never be perfect fulfillment because all experience is unique in some respect. But even when experience disappoints us , shocks us, makes us miserable , it is still
framed by our relevant concerns and goals. The parallel here with thinking is that we can try to think what we want to think, but unpleasant thoughts can intrude in spite of our efforts, as is the case with ptsd, depression and anxiety.

Regarding baiting:

Yours truly plays the game at his whim and wish, because his buttons/emotions cannot be pushed (at least not this easily), as can be evidenced. Unlike the buttons of pussy cats and weasels, who fall for the bait each time, from the very first time.

Sorry, you aren't big enough to push his buttons.

There is an open offer on the table with couple of options, for anyone that wishes to test this further and would like to take me up on it. Until then..... carry on with your silliness

The parallel here with thinking is that we can try to think what we want to think, but unpleasant thoughts can intrude in spite of our efforts, as is the case with ptsd, depression and anxiety. — Joshs

This is why I wouldn't says that thinking is *perfectly* voluntary, only that we have substantial voluntary control over it, in a way we lack with our emotions.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Calm down tough guy!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Calm down tough guy! — hypericin

This one is kool as kool-aid. Not sure about you though. From the "emotions" you have displayed, it seems as if you are enjoying being the joke huh. Glad to be of help.

[reply="skyblack;569147"
If only you knew what a joke you've been!

Shoo, joke.

[reply="skyblack;569147"
If only you knew what a joke you've been!

Shoo, joke. — hypericin

Your hands are shaking (seen from the way you are quoting above), central committee sock/stooge. But hey, if that belief helps you feel better, go for it!

nuf said/proved. carry on.

What do you believe as the causes for emotions? — Corvus

I believe they arise from brain states. They are a perceptual dimension no different than the five senses. But what they are perceiving is internal.

If we know about the causes, nature, and more accurate definitions of emotions, perhaps, we could understand emotions better, and answers to the OP could emerge naturally? — Corvus

Or, we can examine what is phenomenologically right in front of our noses.

central committee sock/stooge — skyblack

What you lack in wit, you more than make up for in incomprehensibility.

I think the struggle here is the aim for an Absolute. What I offer instead is to ask another question and consider its implications:

Do I control my breathing, or does my body?

What absolute is being aimed at? I deliberately phrased the question "how voluntary are emotions", not "are emotions voluntary".

Breathing is somewhat voluntary. You can exercise control, but within strict limits, and this is not the default state. By default the autonomic system is in control. The body (as distingushed from the brain), does not control breathing, it effectuates it.