There is no such place. The Republic of China/ Peoples' Republic of China is a State regulated capitalist market. Like The US, but without the veneer of democracy.

Then why do they sing the Internationale every year and is their flag that with a star? Why is the country called communist?

Why is the country called communist? — Prishon

It isn't. But whatever it is called (by foreigners) and whatever song is sung, does not make it one thing and not another. Where I live is called the United Kingdom, but it has a queen not a king, and is rather disunited. So it goes.

But a kingdom allows for a king and unity is tried to be reached. Communism is not reached for in China.

It's not so communist. Just like the USA or Europe is not capitalist.

These things don't exist.

Communism is not reached for in China. — Prishon

Yes, so stop calling it "communist China" and all your problems are solved. Just call it Goddam China or something.

Goddam China — unenlightened

:lol:

Socialism for the poor and free enterprise for the rich.

Why is the country called communist? — Prishon

Because it has been ruled by the Communist Party since 1949 and for many years it tried to run its economy on Marxist-Leninist lines.

When that approach eventually failed (beginning in the 60's), the leadership decided to emulate the state-capitalism policy introduced by Lenin in the 1920's.

So, basically, it is a semi-capitalist country where capitalist methods are permitted but strictly under the control of the Communist Party.

Another way China differs from capitalist countries is that a lot of those "billionaires" operate in harmony with Party or State interests and can only exist by permission of the Party. One wrong step and you are out. A bit like in Russia, actually.

There are no communist nations and they never have been. The original communist ideas by Marx and Engels were primarily about the evolution of society rather than revolution. At one point they proposed to revolutionize, but that's not what's really found in their analysis. Most of it is about how the fall of capitalism happens naturally and that communism is the ideology that takes its place in order to steer clear of chaos. What Lenin and the rest did was to try and force communism into reality. By doing it through force, they break the natural progression Marx and Engels talked about.

So, any nation who's ever positioned itself as being communists did so on false grounds and it becomes as shallow as a mass murderer saying he is an altruist.

There are no communist nations. If you believe that, you're as much under their influence of propaganda as their own people. There are only dictators and the elite calling the shots while the people believe they are being cared for. Doesn't that sound exactly like, say, the world built on free-market capitalism?

There's only one global structure; the elite and people in power, by money or by blood... and the rest of the population under their boot. The rest is delusions and simulacra, a hyperreal perception of abstract realities that do not exist anywhere. Some in this world actually try to propose cities built from the ground up in accordance with communistic ideals, but they cannot be realized since everything revolves around money and the power through those means.

Calling China a communist nation is an insult to the intellect in my opinion.

Great answer but I dont realy understand a hyperreality. Whats that? A reality subsuming all realities?

Will communism arrive one day Naturaly? I dont see a bright future if materialistic capitalistic science-based technological growth of the economy keeps hold of the globe. But who am I to forbid a millionaire to be a millionair. And already in childhood we are made familiar with it. "Oh how nice, that litgle one has already understood how to enlarge his marble capital; smart kid!". Now I too liked to have a collection. But I was also told at scool everybody should get the same. Untill 10 years, say. Then the attitude changed...

I dont realy understand a hyperreality. — Prishon

Read Baudrillard or some summary of his concepts.

Then why do they sing the Internationale every year and is their flag that with a star? Why is the country called communist? — Prishon

It isn't. But whatever it is called (by foreigners) and whatever song is sung, does not make it one thing and not another. — unenlightened

Except that the CCP think of themselves as true Marxists.

They are what Marxists have become in China. It is Marxism in the Chinese context, socialism with Chinese charasteristics. It's simply the extreme hubris of some Westerners that say the CCP isn't socialist or marxist. Those who say so don't simply understand their own silly hubris.

You see, just as the central banker who saves the banking sector by printing money, will firmly say that he believes in free market capitalism, so will the Chinese leader say and truly believe he is a Marxist.

Just read what Xi Jingping said on the 100th Celebration of the CCP:

We must continue to adapt Marxism to the Chinese context. Marxism is the fundamental guiding ideology upon which our Party and country are founded; it is the very soul of our Party and the banner under which it strives. The Communist Party of China upholds the basic tenets of Marxism and the principle of seeking truth from facts. Based on China's realities, we have developed keen insights into the trends of the day, seized the initiative in history, and made painstaking explorations. We have thus been able to keep adapting Marxism to the Chinese context and the needs of our times, and to guide the Chinese people in advancing our great social revolution. At the fundamental level, the capability of our Party and the strengths of socialism with Chinese characteristics are attributable to the fact that Marxism works.

On the journey ahead, we must continue to uphold Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the Theory of Three Represents, and the Scientific Outlook on Development, and fully implement the Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era. We must continue to adapt the basic tenets of Marxism to China's specific realities and its fine traditional culture. We will use Marxism to observe, understand, and steer the trends of our times, and continue to develop the Marxism of contemporary China and in the 21st century.

We must uphold and develop socialism with Chinese characteristics. We must follow our own path-this is the bedrock that underpins all the theories and practices of our Party. More than that, it is the historical conclusion our Party has drawn from its struggles over the past century. Socialism with Chinese characteristics is a fundamental achievement of the Party and the people, forged through innumerable hardships and great sacrifices, and it is the right path for us to achieve national rejuvenation. As we have upheld and developed socialism with Chinese characteristics and driven coordinated progress in material, political, cultural-ethical, social, and ecological terms, we have pioneered a new and uniquely Chinese path to modernization, and created a new model for human advancement.

On the journey ahead, we must adhere to the Party's basic theory, line, and policy, and implement the five-sphere integrated plan and the four-pronged comprehensive strategy. We must deepen reform and opening up across the board, ground our work in this new stage of development, fully and faithfully apply the new development philosophy, and foster a new pattern of development. We must promote high-quality development and build up our country's strength in science and technology. We must ensure it is our people who run the country, continue to govern based on the rule of law, and uphold the core socialist values. We must ensure and enhance public wellbeing in the course of development, promote harmony between humanity and nature, and take well-coordinated steps toward making our people prosperous, our nation strong, and our country beautiful.

Understand that Chinese communists are proud on what they have been able to do. If they call it Marxism and someone in the West (enjoying the fruits of a Western mixed economy) has a problem with it, it's not the problem of the Chinese, but the Westerner himself or herself.

What people don't notice is the small line "We have thus been able to keep adapting Marxism to the Chinese context and the needs of our times".

For a country that has gone through the debacles of "The Great Leap Forward" and "The Cultural Revolution" and then been able to rise up as they have done, has really had to do some serious adapting of "Marxism to the Chinese context and the needs of our times".

Except that the CCP think of themselves as true Marxists. — ssu

Those who say so don't simply understand their own silly hubris. — ssu

A little harsh. There are words that politicians like to claim, that one does not have to agree that they deserve. "Democratic" is claimed by many a totalitarian dictator. but the rhetoric does not create the fact. When democracy is "adapted" to the need to keep a person in power, it stops being democracy. And Marxism too can be adapted out of existence to meet the need for development and enterprise.

Call it mass delusion, but I genuinely think that the CCP members, especially the leaders, believe what they are saying. They truly think that they are Marxists.

For example, the current leaders Xi Jingping's father was one of the founders of the CCP. This meant that naturally under Mao his father was imprisoned during the Cultural Revolution (what is usual to all dictators) when he was 15 years old. Xi tried to join the CCP seven times before he was accepted (thanks to his father's imprisonment). Just like the Soviet leaders, they were communists. Yet the Soviet Union collapsed, Communist China didn't, but prospered.

Fast forward to the present when nobody cannot deny the historical advances China has made under the leadership of CCP. We might say it's the result of China's export industry, all the investments the West has made and capitalism and using markets rather Soviet style central planning. For the Chinese communists, this perhaps is the necessary "adaption to current situation", just like what we call the "socialism for the rich" many see as necessary to "help" free market capitalism.

So yes, there are words politicians like to claim, but the fact is due to the bubble they live in, they start to believe their mantras.

... due to the bubble they live in, they start to believe their mantras. — ssu

As do we all. (he recites)

Yet the Soviet Union collapsed, Communist China didn't, but prospered. — ssu

This is true, but I think it is more to do with the deep culture of China, I suspect, than anything else. They got a lot more history and politics than we do, and rather less of an obsession with individualism, such that communism makes more visceral sense.

This is true, but I think it is more to do with the deep culture of China, I suspect, than anything else. They got a lot more history and politics than we do, and rather less of an obsession with individualism, such that communism makes more visceral sense. — unenlightened

Let's remember that there still is "the old" capitalist China. It's name is Taiwan.

I think the prosperity and the success of Taiwan clearly shows what the Chinese are capable of and so is also what Communist China has done. I think the real cause are the people themselves, not their "visionary" leaders. So I agree with you on the importance of Chinese culture. It's true we cannot say what would have become of China if the nationalists had won and Mao's insurgents would have been defeated and ended up as a footnote in history as did Soviet Bavaria. But with Taiwan we do have a glimpse.

Now it seems that Chinese leadership is viewing that they should now tighten the grip of the economy and the push they got form capitalism and the West can be now limited. I personally would call the Chinese model classic fascism, the tight control of industries important to the state. The "missing bilionaires" in China is a symptom of this: something similar to Putin reigning in the oligarchs in Russia. China won't either tolerate billionaires to be active in politics (in opposition of the CCP line). The street vendors can naturally have their "free market capitalism". Time will tell what will happen.

(Just look at Taiwan! But poor North Korea, even if it's stats might be too rosy here...)