The language of your post suggests the dichotomy of sense in the definition of the English noun "death": death as the cessation of life ("Transfixed by more than a dozen long spears, the mammoth lay at the bottom of the ravine in apparent death"), and death as the state of inanimacy, which state might be enjoyed even by things which were never alive to begin with ("Lo! Gibraltar, which in silent, stony death has guarded the Straight since before time immemorial, marking the boundary between the known and the mysterious"). The first is a deverbal noun, derived from "to die". The second is a deadjectival noun, derived from the adjective "dead", itself derived from "to die", but having picked up senses meaning "inanimate" later.

I think that in thinking about death in both senses, it behooves us to remember that life is but a transitory phenomenon in the expanse of time. It is a function of the properties of our universe, which is itself transitory within the vastness of space/the void. The universe had a beginning, and will have it's end, as well, and with it any possibility for the formation of life. When we speak of death with fear, it is death in the first, deverbal, sense of which we speak. We are afraid of the cessation of our lives, and the resultant obliteration of the subjective "world" which is the sum total of our understanding of existence. Death, however, when viewed in light of the transience of life, seems not something to fear, it is the natural state of the substance of our bodies...of ourselves. Death (inanimacy) and immateriality are our natural status quo; this admittedly marvellous experience of life is the actual aberration. Once all the matter composing the universe has been destroyed, the last of it swallowed by the final gigantic remnant of a star, the last remaining "black hole", the substance of our bodies will yet exist, but as energy filling and reacting within the void of space, perhaps awaiting the proper conditions for another "big bang" type event.

There are no beginnings and there are no endings. All that happens are changes within the present moment.

Perhaps it is a harsh view of reality, but our parents choose death for us at the same time they choose life. We all know the fate as we marry and bring children in the world, but for some reason or another we decide it is better--for some in a selfish way (they want kids for their own desires sake), and for some selfless (they view the experience as being better than it is bad ultimately, and wish to share it with new life). For me, the only downside to death is knowing I lived a worthless life, and so I strive to make it difference with what I have. But this, ultimately, borders the edge of the physical component of life and the metaphysical. That is to say, a worthless life is truly lifeless...death then is just a physical manifestation of a metaphysical reality.

It's like I've heard it expressed in the past, if you die quietly in your sleep it's a gift from the gods. — boagie

I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

Tip 'o the hat to some forgotten wag.

Anyway, there will be time enough for that, later. Right now, everything, including death, is all about the living. Grief, eulogies, funerals, head stones and all the "You will never be forgotten" lies are, in the end, all about the living. All of it. Even this thread. You can't escape life, even in death.

On the other hand, some other wag once wrote something to the effect that you only die when the last memory of you dies. Maybe then you can RIP.

WOW, a most impressive response from all, not just a bunch of pretty faces--lol!!! Still recovering from my grandfather's passengers -- going to make that one my own! The mourning of someone's death is the mourning of their lost identity, which is the collective memories of a particular constitution which is basically anonymous itself, constitutions differ only in their vitality--it's life's journey of experiences that clothes the naked unknown.

You seem to be alive and assign your words meaning, regardless of anything absolute it seems to bring joy to you, at least enough motivation to type it here before us. So, the answer to your premise is simple and the same as the answer to the following: why did you?

Your Thoughts? — boagie

The only true meaning for conscious existence is that of eternalizing itself in the face of the eventual entropy of the Universe.

Whoever succeeds: - The true apotheosis!

There is no downside to death, if one does not see it coming and there is no suffering involved, whether psychological or physical suffering. Suddenly BINK, the lights go out and there is no experience good or bad for that particular subject. — boagie

I tend to agree with the following passage from Philipp Mainlander - 19th century philosopher -:

“But at the bottom, the immanent philosopher sees in the entire universe only the deepest longing for absolute annihilation, and it is as if he clearly hears the call that permeates all spheres of heaven: Redemption! Redemption! Death to our life! and the comforting answer: you will all find annihilation and be redeemed!”

There is a lot baked in that cake to say annihilation is redemption...is that truly what is stated here? That can justify a lot of evil--assuming you even believe in the concept of evil.

This is about how organisms function relative to the physical world he/she lives in, there are particular functions to be recognized in the relation of subject and object. Nothing is eturnal

The only true meaning of conscious existence is that it is the working relationship between subject and object. Consciousness is perception, is reaction, is cause to the outside world. Your answer is in your own statement, all things change, nothing is eturnal.

Sorry you lose me right way when you get biblical. I do not have any respect for it.

Suddenly BINK, the lights go out and there is no experience good or bad for that particular subject. — boagie

That's how I see it too. To be dead is to be gone, utterly gone. While we are still alive, we can worry about the living we'll leave behind, try to avoid death for their sake, buy life insurance. Of course we often avoid death for our own sake. We are attached to the plans we have for ourselves, and perhaps to all the many simple, sensual pleasures of being healthy and in good relationships.

I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

Tip 'o the hat to some forgotten wag. — James Riley

That's a good one. :up:

There is no downside to death — boagie

If you're being tortured mercilessly, yes.

if you die quietly in your sleep it's a gift from the gods. — boagie

That's what the Thanatos and Algea do to you. It makes you lower the bar for everything, so much so that you begin to perceive curses as boons, punishments as rewards, hate as love, privation as presents, you get the idea.

what is mourned by loved ones — boagie

Don't kid yourself.

That out of the way, food for thought: Algea warns us of Thanatos and Thanatos liberates us from Algea. Our frenemy relationship with pain (Algea) and death (Thanatos) is the stuff of legends.

Also check out Tithonus, granted eternal life but not eternal youth. Imagine if you were told that you would age but live forever. Wouldn't you ask for the Grim Reaper to pay you a visit...at the appropriate time? and maybe...just maybe...we did just that, explaining why we die i.e. we willingly opted to die to escape a grim fate like Tithonus'. :chin: We forgot about the arrangement...someone jog our memories for us will ya.

If it were not for a built-in fear of death it could not be said to be bad. — boagie

Our relationship with death is strongly defined by our expectations of death, i.e. our beliefs. Fear of death may be humanly intrinsic, blind faith has the power to overrule that though - or at the very least, inhibit the psychological terror of facing death.

What should a person fear when they expect to ascend the stairway to heaven after death?
What should a person fear when they expect to be reborn time and time again?


That's why I opt to be "religiously inclined". Death is the root of fear and master of many mysteries. Simply taking an available answer, be it true or false, can massively shift how we face death and in turn how we face our fears.

There is no downside to death, if one does not see it coming and there is no suffering involved, whether psychological or physical suffering. Suddenly BINK, the lights go out and there is no experience good or bad for that particular subject. — boagie

Now in accord with my personal beliefs, I'd hate a sort of sudden, unaware death. I'd like to face it head-on, a sort of magnum opus to my life. I believe there is something grand to be gained from that, as if our consciousness is most conscious just before it falls apart.

Sorry you lose me right way when you get biblical. I do not have any respect for it. — boagie

- Biblical! He says.

If only did he knew that, "Philosophy", is not for the clear minded.

assuming you even believe in the concept of evil. — Derrick Huestis

Indeed, I don't believe in this arbitrary dichotomy of the nature of Men.

Your answer is in your own statement, all things change, nothing is eturnal. — boagie

Everything is "Eternal", as everything descends from the natural essence of the Universe:

"The craving for the craving - Egoism."

In my intro post, I did mention no downside where there is no form of suffering to the process.
I am afraid I am unfamiliar with the references you make here but will check it out. Is it Greek mythology?

Your point here about the adoption of a myth, an unlikely method alone to find truth, simply to obtain existential comfort, is a betrayal of your intellectual integrity. If you are alright with that, then your home free. If you are a Yank, most of the population apparently agrees with this method or process. It is not a behaviour I personally respect, and the tendency of believers is to believe they are deserving of respect.

Given the temporality of everything around us, what makes you think the universe is eturnal? Sorry if I misenterpreted your perspective as being bibilical. Although I think it possiable its influences might creep into any of our posts, culture does tend to define. When ever one is in complete agreement with the majority, is when one needs to question one's own motivations and methods of understanding.

Just what absolutes are you referring to?

I think that the way death is thought about in a negative way within many cultures leads people to fear death. It may be that in some cultures it is not seen as something to be feared so much but understood to be part of the cycles. The fear of death is linked to our attachments to ego consciousness. Some people are so much more afraid than others, but probably at the moment of realising one's future death is on the horizon makes it hard not to be fearful of non existence, and this may also be connected with whether we feel satisfied with our lives and how we have contributed to life in the world.

Haven't died, can't confirm.

Everything is "Eternal", as everything descends from the natural essence of the Universe: — Gus Lamarch

This is a truism which requires a bit of clarification. The English adjective "eternal" is semantically problematic...semantically ambiguous in the absence of qualification. This is because English "eternal" involves a semantic conflation of the meanings of two different Latin adjectives: aeternus, which means "pertaining to or lasting for "the age", for a given span of time (Latin aetas = "age") or for ages" and aeternalis, which has the meaning "everlasting", "infinitely lasting", "lasting forever (beyond all ages or outside of time)". The first, aeternus, is a temporal term, while aeternalis describes existence outside of time. Because of this, "eternal" and "infinite", as well as "eternity" and "infinity", may be, but are not necessarily synonymous. To tell your lover that "our love is eternal", you are using that word in the sense of Latin "aeternus", the "age" in question being for your or her lifespan (whichever ends first) or at least until one of you gets sick and tired of the other, but when a Christian says that "God is eternal", he means in the sense of Latin "aeternalis". So, since our universe is not everlasting, but will some day eventually die, it is, indeed, "eternal", but only in the sense of the Latin adjective aeternus.

In my intro post, I did mention no downside where there is no form of suffering to the process. — boagie

I wish it were that good a deal - a swift and painless demise - but something tells me, dying isn't a very pleasant experience if you know what I mean.

I am afraid I am unfamiliar with the references you make here but will check it out. Is it Greek mythology? — boagie

Yes, Greek mythology. Here are some links:

Tithonus

Algea/Algos

Thanatos

Throughout one's life there is a common avoidance in pondering death, and more so the more one is full of life's vitality. I have found some peace with the idea through understanding the nature of consciousness as that which is thought to be lost. Conciousness is not lost, it is everywhere, and if one identifies with consciousness rather than the vehicle that carries it, there is a level of compensation in that.

Conciousness is one thing and identity is quite something different. Identity is a constitution's consciousness of it's journey through this life, so identity becomes the journey, what context has largely defined. Constitution is a given, good or bad but what happens to it registers in consciousness as who/what you are.

I agree there is much suffering involved in most deaths, but there are those the gods smile upon and it's BINK, the lights are out. The big sleep is granted utterly without suffering, never knew what hit them sort of thing.

I agree there is much suffering involved in most deaths, but there are those the gods smile upon and it's BINK, the lights are out. The big sleep is granted utterly without suffering, never knew what hit them sort of thing. — boagie

If an expert sniper/marksman blows your head off with a clean shot to the apricot, I don't think there'll be time enough to realize that you're dying.

Fool,
You had to know you get stuck with that handle--lol!! You are of course right, no suffering is involved, whether psycological or physical. You might think that getting shot in the head would be painful, but not if it does not have time to register. It is not the worst of ways to go.

Your point here about the adoption of a myth, an unlikely method alone to find truth, simply to obtain existential comfort, is a betrayal of your intellectual integrity. — boagie

I think not. I see it as the most pragmatic thing to do. If there is some truth to what I believe then believing is the best thing I can do. If there is no truth to what I believe, obtaining existential comfort is still the best thing I can do.

Not to mention that I think the quest "to find truth" is a vain one. Don't get me wrong, in many ways I think that too is one of the best things one can do - but it boils down to being utterly pointless.