The virtuous Stoic will not lose his virtue whether he lives or dies; but it is legitimate for him, when faced with what the non-Stoic would regard as intolerable evils, to make a rational choice to depart from life. — Anthony Kenny (An Illustrated Brief History Of Western Philosophy

Prime Numbers are divisible only by (itself and 1).

1 is the loneliest number! I feel melancholia setting in. Am I going to divide myself? :grin:

In Plato's Phaedo, the act is wrong because it puts asunder what the divine has brought together. The proposed exceptions to the prohibition are presented as respectful arguments brought forward as a human desire for a different outcome in a particular situation. That is what a human being can do.

But that means humans are also involved with what continues to live. The argument with the divine is leverage of some kind; Not understood before it is applied. Not understood very well after that either.

Cf four noble truths Life is suffering — Ennui Elucidator

You forgot the other three: to wit:

" Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving [taṇhā, "thirst"] which leads to re-becoming, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for becoming, craving for disbecoming.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is this noble eightfold path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration."

Of course, if you don't believe in karma or rebirth, you might conclude than easier way to end suffering would be to commit suicide.

BTW, i haven't read the entire thread, but I haven't noticed anyone mentioning the issue of the suffering caused if you commit suicide to those who might care about you. Of course, if no one cares,,,

That is my point, it is impossible to make a purely rational decision. If in the third scenario you say that you would rather not be born then then that would mean that what happened in your life is objectively wrong, — I love Chom-choms

I think it is confused to put it in moral terms. People don't want to continue suffering. Or in the I would rather not live scenario, they don't want to experience X. And it is obviously quite a strong emotional/desire rejection of that life or living. It's neither a rational nor a moral decision - which by the way does not mean it is irrational. It is non-rational.

Suicidal people are generally not arguing in favor of no longer living and then once they have a good argument killing themselves. They want to stop living, they desire it.

And if someone really did not want to live, I wouldn't want them to live for me. Or better put, while a part of me might hate the idea and fact of not having them around, I do not want them to stay alives, while suffering in ways they hate, for me. I think that is an immoral demand. Live and suffer for me.

The distorted logic that suicide is a personal, even selfish, whim based on some kind of external happiness quotient remains pervasive, despite efforts over decades to destigmatize this most confounding manner of death. Even a change in language — the widespread push toward stating a person “died by suicide” rather than “committed suicide” to underscore that this is not a criminal act, or sin, but an illness, like a fatal cancer or a massive stroke — has done little to reframe the debate.

But it’s not anyone’s choice. It’s outside the realm of choice, like a fatal heart attack. There are behaviors that look like choices that don't take into account how biologically determined they are. We’re talking about a kind of suffering that is, for the most part, outside the realm of anyone else’s experience.

For a mortal person, suicide means actually dying.

For an immortal person, suicide is simply wanting to be mortal! When an immortal person commits suicide, s/he doesn't have to die, s/he just has to want to die (desire a mortal life).

In a sense we, our lot, are immortals who've committed suicide because we're mortal!

Programmed Cell Death/Cellular Suicide/Apoptosis