I...suggest that the discovery of agriculture is one of civilisation’s biggest mistakes. — David S
I wanted to start with quite a controversial argument I imagine which is to suggest that the discovery of agriculture is one of civilisation’s biggest mistakes. I will set out some of the main reasons why but the main one to start with is the fact that it created surplus and with that the idea or concept of wealth. — David S
I had a conversation with a guy a couple of decades ago. He was citing increased longevity over time. I pointed out that it was my understanding that decreasing infant mortality made up the lions share of that. — James Riley
t brings to mind a sign in a bar just off the Shoshoni/Paiute Reservation. It said something to the effect: "We hunted and fished and crafted and sang and danced and had sex all day. We paid no taxes and the women did all the work. The white man showed up and figured he could improve on that." — James Riley
You were completely wrong. — I like sushi
I've also considered fire as a potential culprit. — James Riley
For some, the entire population of the Western Hemisphere were innocent until the Europeans came along and fucked everyone and everything over. — Bitter Crank
I wanted to start with quite a controversial argument I imagine which is to suggest that the discovery of agriculture is one of civilisation’s biggest mistakes. — David S
Since agriculture would seem to be a necessary condition for civilization, — Janus
One theorist (maybe in Against the Grain--not sure) proposed that agriculture was not intended to make life better for the farmer; it was intended to make life better for those who controlled the farmer. Capturing labor for economic exploitation would have had to wait until agriculture was developed well enough to produce a surplus for the new exploiters. Getting from the first bowl of oatmeal (so to speak) to the first grain collection bins may have taken several millennia. — Bitter Crank
Since agriculture would seem to be a necessary condition for civilization, I can't see how it could be one of civilization's mistakes. — Janus
Whoever that theorist is — I like sushi
Are you Yuval Noah Harari in disguise? — Michael Zwingli
[...]gathering was Sapiens' main activity and it provided most of their calories.
there is some evidence that the size of the average Sapiens brain has actually decreased since the age of foraging. surviving in that era required superb mental abilities from everyone. when agriculture and industry came along people could increasingly rely on the skills of others for survival, and new 'niches for imbeciles' were opened up. you could survive and pass your unremarkable genes to the next generation by working as a water carrier or an assembly-line worker.
the hunter-gatherer way of life differed significantly from region to region and from season to season, but on the whole foragers seem to have enjoyed a more comfortable and rewarding lifestyle than most of the peasants; shepherds, laborers and office clerks who followed in their footsteps.
while people in today's affluent societies work on average forty to forty-five hours a week, and people in the developing world work sixty and even eighty hours a week, hunter-gatherers living today in the most inhospitable of habitats - such as the Kalahari desert - work on average for just thirty-five to forty-five hours a week. They hunt only one day out of three, and gathering takes up just three to six hours daily. — Yuval Noah Harari (Sapiens)
Frenemy bad. Asteroid worse. — Confucius
I'm not quite sure I agree. Farming yields a steady predictable supply of food, which fits in well with an organized society. Hunter gathering is less predictable, much harder to feed an entire civilization. It's necessary to constantly migrate to new areas just to find prey.Like I said, there is nothing to say a 'civilised' society couldn't come into being based on a hunter gather lifestyle. The main issue would be sustaining a larger population. — I like sushi
Which is different than hunter-gathering.Generally though a 'civilisation' is just a body of people organised into complex social strata with more skilled-labour being a major hallmark. — I like sushi
Haha.. wise man, he.Frenemy bad. Asteroid worse.
— Confucius — TheMadFool
there is some evidence that the size of the average Sapiens brain has actually decreased since the age of foraging — Yuval Noah Harari (Sapiens)
Yes, perhaps, but the important part for abstract thinking, upon which all art and science depends, namely the frontal region, has grown tremendously, while the evolutionarily less important parietal and occipital regions have shrunk. — Michael Zwingli
Point is, the cause of human inequity, and so of suffering amidst abundance (the very abundance partially resulting from agricultural industry) proceeds not from extraneous causes, but from within us, as a result of our nature. — Michael Zwingli
Yes, perhaps, but the important part for abstract thinking, upon which all art and science depends, namely the frontal region, has grown tremendously, while the evolutionarily less important parietal and occipital regions have shrunk. — Michael Zwingli
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