• Ignignot
    59
    The states in which God exists? Tennessee, Ohio, and Vermont.
  • Javants
    32


    Also, any effect some other being has on my actions would mean that they are inseparable from the same world I am part of. They would be part of the same causal chain that I am part of, which would lead one to ask who created the creator? How does something come from nothing?Harry Hindu

    It is equally impossible for our minds to grasp infinite causation as it is something coming from nothingness. As you said yourself, "causation could continue forever in both directions". Just because we can't comprehend it, does not mean it necessarily did not happen (although we have no real way of knowing).
  • Javants
    32


    By 'States' I don't mean a political division, rather a state of existence. Specifically, whether or not a God exists, does not exist, is our creator, or is not our creator.
  • Ignignot
    59
    I do exist. I am your creator. I own three houses in the US (in the states mentioned) and don't really like the rest of the world. I passed this dissatisfaction with my own work on to you humans. You really were created in my image. I didn't write that book. But lucky guess. This is my final transmission. It tires me to think in English. I'm not omniscient, by the way. I don't know where I came from. I don't remember ever having not been here. But I also don't remember arriving. I have wandered if I am myself a creation, but I can't find any signs of that other than the strangeness of being itself. It's a weird thing, hard to explain. I passed it on to some of you guys so that I would be less lonely with it. (I'm also not omnipotent. I can create matter pretty easily (the junk in the universe I put around your planet to give you something to do) but creating consciousness like my own was truly the limit of my powers. I felt like I was dying. But it was worth it, I guess. Though I feel like I'm at my own funeral. It kinda sucks to be God and have no body, so I localized your consciousness. But I can only interact with you guys through language. Sure I can flood the Earth (which is not a confession) but that's open to interpretation. I want to be known in spirit and in truth. But no one believes the words when I whisper into their minds. Or they go mad or they are treated like crazies by the people I didn't get around to. And I don't have the inclination to start personal relationships with billions of you guys. I confess. I pick my favorites. They are not always grateful. I tend to respect my more independent children, who insist that they are equal to me in consciousness if not in power. Well, yeah, of course. That was the plan, kid. Anyway, nice chatting.
  • Punshhh
    2.6k
    How can I know that you are my God?
  • Harry Hindu
    5.1k
    Yes, these are possibilities, but they are not alternatives to whether or not you have a creator. In other words, you must have either no creator or a creator. Whether or not you were created in an infinite stream of causation or by a single being which is the first to exist doesn't change the fact that you were, indeed, created (or vice versa).Javants
    Ok. I see your point. I believe I was created by my parents. After all, my appearance, shape and function all seem to resemble certain aspects of their appearance, shape and function more than any other thing I have encountered.


    That's a very good point, but for the purpose of this debate, having something which creates you does not mean it is a God based on the fact alone that it is affecting your life by allowing it to exist. For example, hypothetically, we could have been created by some freak natural phenomena. Even though that phenomena has created us (and thus has the effect of allowing us to act), it cannot really be considered a 'God' because it has not had any further affect on our lives besides causation.Javants
    Understood. I wouldn't consider it a God if it didn't have any prior intention in creating me. But I have limits and functions. My limits and functions must say something about what created me.

    I wouldn't call it a "freak" natural phenomenon. "Freak" and "natural" seem to contradict each other, as what would be freakish would be unnatural.


    It is equally impossible for our minds to grasp infinite causation as it is something coming from nothingness. As you said yourself, "causation could continue forever in both directions". Just because we can't comprehend it, does not mean it necessarily did not happen (although we have no real way of knowing).Javants
    This is where I'm going to disagree. If there is infinite causation, or a loop of causation, then there is/was no nothingness. There has always been something.

    As for the incomprehensibility of infinite causation, I find infinite causation much easier to grasp than the concept of something coming from nothing. I can imagine an infinite line of causation. It's just that my mind is limited in the amount of information it can hold in any given moment. My mind cannot contain all the information in a stream of infinite causation, just as my mind cannot contain all the information in the world. There's a limit to the amount of information I can have access to at any given moment. However, I cannot even imagine how something can come from nothing. That is beyond my comprehension.
  • Janus
    16.2k
    The states in which God exists? Tennessee, Ohio, and Vermont.Ignignot



    Nah, don't be ridiculous: It's only New South Wales and Tasmania.
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