• Wheatley
    2.3k
    According to online Encyclopedia Britannica: imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas. Because it always involves the use of power, whether military or economic or some subtler form, imperialism has often been considered morally reprehensible, and the term is frequently employed in international propaganda to denounce and discredit an opponent’s foreign policy. Read more about imperialism. Link.

    There's another article (again Britannica) on so-called "new imperialism" which involves capitalism and economic domination. (link) Perhaps "new imperialism" is a distinction without a difference? :chin:

    Noam Chomsky argues that the US history of foreign interventions are imperialistic. (link) US military bases are everywhere. (link)

    Given all these data points (additional are welcome), can we say unequivocally that the United States is an imperialist country?
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    A staggering 80% of all the global conflicts and wars since WWII involved the USA. Here is a PARTIAL list of the meddling and wars of the United States of Aggression.

    1947–1949: Intervening in the Greek civil war

    1947–1970: Meddling in Italy's elections and supporting anti-communism activities

    1945-1949: Intervening in China’s civil war and establishing Taiwan

    1948: Supporting anti-government forces in Costa Rica's civil war

    1949–1953: Supporting anti-communism activities in Albania

    1949: Staging a coup in Syria (it was CIA’s first coup)

    1950–1953: Korean War

    1952: Intervening in the Egyptian Revolution of 1952

    1953: Orchestrated a coup in Iran and overthrew the democratically elected leader

    1954: Invaded Guatemala and installed a puppet

    1956–1957: Plotting a coup in Syria

    1957–1959: Supporting a coup in Indonesia

    1958: Creating a crisis in Lebanon

    1960–1961: Supporting a coup in the Congo

    1960: Meddling in Laos’ reforms

    1961: Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba

    1961–1975: Supporting civil war and OPIUM TRADE in Laos (look up “Air America”)

    1961–1964: Supporting anti-government activities in Brazil

    1963: Supporting civil strife in Iraq

    1963: Supporting riots in Ecuador

    1963–1975: Vietnam War

    1964: Intervening in Congo’s rebellion (and bombing)

    1965–1966: Intervening in Dominica's civil war

    1965–1967: Installing, arming and aiding fascist Indonesian military government’s massacre of communists (2-3 million killed)

    1966: Engineering an insurgency in Ghana

    1966–1969: Creating conflicts in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), which is a region on the Korean peninsula that demarcates North Korea from South Korea

    1966–1967: Supporting an insurgency in Bolivia

    1967: Intervening in the change of the Greek government

    1967–1975: Intervening in Cambodia's civil war

    1970: Meddling in Oman's domestic affairs

    1970–1973: Aided a military coup in Chile (overthrew democratically elected and popular progressive leader, Salvador Allende)

    1970–1973: Orchestrating a coup in Cambodia

    1971: Supporting a coup in Bolivia

    1972–1975: Assisting anti-government forces in Iraq

    1976: Supporting a coup in Argentina

    1976–1992: Intervening in Angola's domestic affairs

    1977–1988: Supporting a coup in Pakistan

    1979–1993: Supporting anti-government forces in Cambodia

    1979–1989: Arming, funding, training the Mujahedin in Afghanistan. This led to Al Qaeda and the largest network of Islamic terrorist groups in the world.

    1979–1989: Used Saddam Hussein to wage a proxy war against Iraq. Funded and armed Saddam for ten years.

    1980–1989: Financed anti-government Solidarity trade union in Poland

    1980–1992: Meddling in El Salvador's civil war

    1981: Attacking Libya in Gulf of Sidra

    1981–1982: Engineering regime change in Chad

    1982–1984: Participating in a multilateral intervention in Lebanon

    1982–1989: Supporting anti-government forces in Nicaragua (the U.S. armed fascists, death squads, drug lords etc.)

    1983: Invading Grenada

    1986: Invading Gulf of Sidra, Libya

    1986: Bombing Libya

    1988: Shooting down an Iranian airliner

    1988: Sending troops to Honduras

    1989: Attacking Libya in Tobruk

    1989: Intervening in the Philippines' domestic affairs

    1989–1990: Invading Panama

    1990–1991: Persian Gulf War, Part 1

    1991: Intervening in Haiti's elections

    1991–2003: Leading the enforcement action to establish a no-fly zone in Iraq

    1992–1995: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the first time

    1992–1995: Intervening in the Bosnian War

    1994–1995: Sending troops to Haiti

    1996: Supporting a coup in Iraq

    1997: Sending troops to Albania

    1997: Sending troops to Sierra Leone

    1998–1999: Waging the Kosovo War

    1998: Launching cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan

    1998–1999: Sending troops to Kenya and Tanzania

    2001–present: War on Afghanistan

    2002: Sending troops to Côte d'Ivoire

    2003: Orchestrating color revolution in Georgia and installing a pro-US government

    2003–present: Iraq War, Part 2

    2004–now: Inciting wars between Pakistan and Afghanistan in their contiguous areas

    2004: Orchestrating color revolution in Ukraine and installing a pro-US government

    2006–2007: Supporting Fatah, a Palestinian political and military organization, in overthrowing the elected government of Hamas

    2007–present: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the second time

    2009: Supporting a coup in Honduras

    2011: Supporting anti-government forces in Libya

    2011–present: Arming, funding, training jihadists, Al Qaeda, and “moderate rebels” in Syria. Occasionally bombing Syria. And occupying the oil-rich parts of Syria.

    2011–2017: Carrying out military operations in Uganda

    2014: Orchestrating a color revolution in Ukraine and overthrowing a democratically elected leader.

    2014–present: Leading the intervention actions in Iraq

    2015–now: Arming, directing Saudi Arabia's participation in Yemen's civil war

    2017-2019: Attempting regime change in Venezuela

    https://californiaman.substack.com/p/list-of-us-wars-and-interventions

    There is no other country that even comes close. Like, it's the difference between having gone to Pluto and having walked out of one's backyard. And this list doesn't even cover the economic imperialism that the US has imposed on the world. Americans who panic monger over China and Russia as though America is not the biggest and worst threat to the entire world a million times over have no idea what they are talking about. The closest fictional depiction that comes close to allegorizing the absolute terror waged on the rest of the world by US empire is 'The Empire' in Star Wars. The US are the world's 'bad guys', and have been for nearly a century now - and that's after they colonialized and genocided their own population of native Americans (~5 million dead). Everything they touch turns to blood. The genocides carried out with US support since WWII would rival the body-count of the Holocaust multiple times over.
  • 180 Proof
    15.3k
    For the kids ...
    You can't handle the truth!

    Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
    — Colonel Jessup, A Few Good Men
    :100: :fire: :point: "Pax Americana über alles!"
  • SpaceDweller
    520
    can we say unequivocally that the United States is an imperialist country?Wheatley

    Based on definition from wikipedia (and later text):

    Imperialism is a policy or ideology of extending the rule over peoples and other countries, for extending political and economic access, power and control, often through employing hard power, especially military force, but also soft power. While related to the concepts of colonialism and empire, imperialism is a distinct concept that can apply to other forms of expansion and many forms of government.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

    We can say the US is an imperialist state but not colonialist.
  • frank
    15.7k
    We can say the US is an imperialist state but not colonialist.SpaceDweller

    We have a colony on Mars.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    The US is a colony.

    It just so happened to have genocided 5 million or so of its local occupants before settling on their land and letting them rot.
  • Pinprick
    950


    Quite an impressive, and saddening, list. Not looking for a debate, but I’m just curious how many items on your list you personally disagree with, or feel that the world would have been better off without the US intervening? Half? 75%?
  • SpaceDweller
    520
    We have a colony on Mars.frank

    Good joke but, colony without sovereignty is not a colony.
  • frank
    15.7k
    Good joke but, colony without sovereignty is not a colonySpaceDweller

    Carthage was a Phoenician colony, but Tyre never controlled it.
  • SpaceDweller
    520
    Carthage was a Phoenician colony, but Tyre never controlled it.frank

    Nice example but outside my knowledge of history.
    Mars or portions of it's land however AFAIK isn't claimed or controlled by anyone.
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    If one conflates the United States sovereign with those who own the politicians who fill the legal positions created by the sovereign's organic documents (which it is perfectly reasonable and understandable to do), then the answer is yes. The United States in an imperialist country.

    However, if one considers only the aspirational intent laid out in those same documents, and looks only what the United States is supposed to be, then the answer is no. The Unites States is not an imperialist country.

    An example might help. If Joe Schmo goes over seas and runs afoul of another sovereign's laws (or the chosen implementation of those laws by those acting under color of law), regardless of how far those laws or the implementation may stray from traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice, Joe is fucked. He might get a token condolence, a tip of the hat, or a phone call from the U.S. Embassy; or his name might even come up at a wine-and-cheese-cocktail- party at some dignitaries house. Someone might even visit his family's home here in the U.S. and offer condolences and promises that everything under the sun is being done. But in the final analysis, the U.S. doesn't give a shit and he's fucked.

    Compare: If large corporation X has a little problem in some foreign country (like some uppity peasant has actually persuaded the local U.S. proxy government to consider letting him have the land he has been on since Christ was a Corporal, and the oil under it) then gun-boat diplomacy is on the table. I know, I know; before all you historians try to correct me with your irrelevant BS, try considering the gist of what I am saying. Nothing but the names and the sophistication and nuanced methodologies have changed between 1905 and today.

    If Americans were to ever themselves get uppity and back that peasant's (or his government's) hand, we would then learn the difference between what we aspire to be and what we really are. And we'd have to listen to a metric shit-ton of wailing and whining and crying about "socialism" and "communism" from a bunch of anti-intellectual, uneducated, conservative Republican stupid fucks who wouldn't know socialism, communism, or representative democracy if it hit them over their pointed little heads.
  • boagie
    385
    Read Oliver Stone's '' The Untold History Of The United States", if you have any doubt America is an empire, a rather nasty one at that.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    And we'd have to listen to a metric shit-ton of wailing and whining and crying about "socialism" and "communism" from a bunch of anti-intellectual, uneducated, conservative Republican stupid fucks who wouldn't know socialism, communism, or representative democracy if it hit them over their pointed little heads.James Riley

    American Empire is a bipartisan project, pursued with clarity and intent. The rest of your post is bloviating apologia.
  • Manuel
    4.1k
    Yes it is.

    But I think we have to distinguish between the policy makers and those on the levers of power as opposed to the general population. It's those in power who set the agenda, regardless of what the people actually want.

    Granted, there are times when the population can be stirred into hysteria (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq) due to very tried and true PR methods. And there's obviously a very ugly history in terms of its foundations - and that goes for most of the Americas and much of the rest of the nation states in the world too.

    But yes, it is one and continues to be the World's sole super power per military might. It was at its most powerful post WWII.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Quite an impressive, and saddening, list. Not looking for a debate, but I’m just curious how many items on your list you personally disagree with, or feel that the world would have been better off without the US intervening? Half? 75%?Pinprick

    I looked through and to be honest it's hard to find an item I do think would pass that test. Maybe maybe maybe the Kosovo intervention, but I'd have to read more into it to say for sure. One of the more depressing books to read is William Blum's Killing Hope. It details most of these interventions and the price paid - in pretty much all cases, the outcome is awful. And, contrary to the USs rah rah about freedom and democracy, many of the interventions were engaged in precisely to kill off exactly that.

    --

    Edit: as for the fine distinction between 'the people' and 'the powers that be' that some people are drawing - imagine telling the family of some exploded person that. "Oh the American people didn't really want to see your son in pieces, it's just the powers that be, America is really good I promise". One look at America's disgusting veneration of military culture in everyday life will tell you all you need to know about what 'the general population' feel. Hell just look at the movies it produces.
  • frank
    15.7k
    Read Oliver Stone's '' The Untold History Of The United States", if you have any doubt America is an empire, a rather nasty one at that.boagie

    Also
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    The alterntive to murdering ten of millions of people worldwide is not murdering tens of millions of people worldwide. One of these things I personally have done, unlike the US. You'll never guess which.

    Good rant tho. Somewhere, in the background, a tiny patriotic trumpet is playing.
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    The alterntive to murdering ten of millions of people worldwide is not murdering tens of millions of people worldwide.StreetlightX

    Cite? No? Didn't think so. Besides, even if it were true, what's to say that has anything to do with the aspirational side I referenced, and not the evil that controls it?

    You live in a glass house? Just wondering.

    Good rant rant tho. Somewhere, in the background, a tiny patriotic trumpet is playing.StreetlightX

    Oh, the jealously rings loudly in this one. Did you get the short end of the U.S. stick? Or did your country or something you love? If so, I'd like to know. Maybe I can justify it. Not to you, of course. You are beyond hope. But your words make it sound like you deserved what you got. LOL!
  • SpaceDweller
    520

    And we'd have to listen to a metric shit-ton of wailing and whining and crying about "socialism" and "communism" from a bunch of anti-intellectual, uneducated, conservative Republican stupid fucks who wouldn't know socialism, communism, or representative democracy if it hit them over their pointed little heads.James Riley

    I don't see any problem with democracy, socialism or imperialism.
    All of these are compatible and not mutually exclusive, so why being populistic by defending democracy vs socialism knowing that communism to socialism is the same evil as capitalism to democracy.

    All it takes is democracy, socialism and imperialism to run a better country.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    The alterntive to murdering ten of millions of people worldwide is not murdering tens of millions of people worldwide.StreetlightX

    Cite? No? Didn't think so.James Riley

    Reposted without comment.

    :snicker:
  • frank
    15.7k


    Looks like I'll have to read it a little at a time. It's looks rough.

    I know South America has been a target for decades. Just systematically undermining stability.
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    Cite? No? Didn't think so.
    — James Riley

    Reposted without comment.
    StreetlightX

    In other words, no. Figures. Tens of millions. :roll:
  • Manuel
    4.1k


    Yeah it's pretty ugly. It's often boils down to money and power, not much more.

    But it's far from unique to the US. The British, The Spanish, The French, everybody, did the same thing.
  • frank
    15.7k
    But it's far from unique to the US. The British, The Spanish, The French, everybody, did the same thing.Manuel

    I know. The British tried to do it to the US after the American Revolution. I guess the US learned from the best.
  • boagie
    385
    The first world war was the first hint that the British could not get their own way in the world anymore, they needed the Americans. So, America started its colonial take over, often in more subtle but just a ruthless manner, and outdoing the British in its violence directed to the world at large.
  • frank
    15.7k
    outdoing the British in its violence directed to the world at large.boagie

    Not really. The British invented modern global trade by violent means. The US has never been in their league, nor ever will be
  • Changeling
    1.4k
    But it's far from unique to the US. The British, The Spanish, The French, everybody, did the same thing.Manuel

    The CCP have been attempting to do it too, as of late.
  • Manuel
    4.1k


    They have, to the extent that they're the dominant regional power. What they've done in HK is quite ugly.

    At the same time, the way the US and NATO are escalating situation in Taiwan is truly horrific. Yeah, I'd much prefer Taiwan to be independent. Doesn't matter what I want, it's not worth a nuclear war.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    The first world war was the first hint that the British could not get their own way in the world anymore, they needed the Americans.boagie

    The United States finally entered the war [WWI] neither because of German bombing of commercial ships nor out of any ‘idealist’ desire to ‘make the world safe for democracy’, but because the allies could no longer keep up their purchases from US firms. Guaranteeing their borrowing was now beyond even the great J. P. Morgan’s means. The US ambassador in London, reporting on the international situation, found it ‘most alarming to the financial and industrial outlook of the United States’. British and French inability to keep up orders would surely mean ‘a panic in the United States’, and he concluded that it was not ‘improbable that the only way of maintaining our present preeminent trade position and averting a panic is by declaring war on Germany’ (quoted in Lens, 2003: 260).

    Only by entering the war could the US government guarantee the $3.5 billion the allies owed to US bankers and businesses,and authorize a further $3 billion in loans for continued allied purchases from the United States. So with war and what amounted to a government export credit to the belligerents, US manufacturing went from 35.8 per cent of the world total in 1913, compared with Germany’s 14.3 per cent and the United Kingdom’s 14.1 per cent, to 42.2 per cent in 1926–29, while the war reduced Germany’s and the United Kingdom’s shares to 11.6 per cent and 9.4 per cent respectively (League of Nations, 1945: 13).

    -Radhika Desai, Geopolitical Economy.

    The Americans needed the British - and the rest of Europe - to keep buying their stuff.
  • tim wood
    9.2k
    Yeah, yeah. We know, US sucks, and so does everywhere else, right? Only problem is your brand of one colour for everything destroys your credibility as a colorist. Everywhere sucks, everyone sucks. Not interesting, and not believable. Plausible - you're a smart guy - but imprudent in judgment, and thus all your judgments suspect. Is there anyplace that you say does not suck, or anyone? How about NZ and Jacinda Ardern? It and her OK? Or anyone?
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