The US may not be the nicest superpower to ever exist, but I would have to agree with other forum members that it is better for a world to be protected by the US then ruled under China.I think the days of superpowers are over, thank goodness. Countries that were traditionally poor and powerless are now gaining economic and political strength. Everyone is connected to everyone else by economic ties. We can't screw them without screwing ourselves.
China is just starting to act like we do. Yes, that could be a frightening prospect. — T Clark
Yeah, I've hear about this before where China is trying to use IT technology to turn their cities into police states instead of using it to try and make peoples lives better. In the US you can have trouble getting certain jobs if you have a bad credit score, but at least the city and state authorities that are here don't use it to "identify troublemakers". The problem with using credit scores to identify "good"/"bad" people is that credit scores are really just a reflection of a persons financial status and not criminal/moral behavior since ALOT of law abiding people who never have committed a crime in their lives can have really bad credit scores if they either have a medical emergency and/or lose their job and unable to quickly acquire a new one.This is what scares me about China:
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4 — RogueAI
In a nutshell if China manages to become the biggest super power in the world and nobody can or will stop them, they will just keep swallowing one country after another until either most or all of the world is under the authoritarian rule of China itself. — dclements
In a nutshell if China manages to become the biggest super power in the world and nobody can or will stop them, they will just keep swallowing one country after another until either most or all of the world is under the authoritarian rule of China itself. — dclements
I haven't seen anyone else seriously claim that the Chinese authorities have any such plan, or that it's a remotely probable scenario. Where do you get the idea from? — jamalrob
When I was young and before the Cold War ended, I use to think that in some way the USSR kept the US in check and the US kept the USSR in check. And with two separate superpowers with different ideology neither the forces of capitalism nor communism could become truly the dominant ideology in the world. Of course this changed when the Cold War ended.The more stable situation would be to have the influence of both. — frank
Well the real lie in many of our wars that it was really about certain rich men becoming richer at the expense of those that fought and suffer during such wars, however this can be said of almost all wars that are fought.This is the lie we told ourselves when we got into Vietnam. As I said, I think the days of superpowers are over. We'll see. Well, not me, I'll be dead by then. — T Clark
While the idea of having one (or more) super powers trying to act like a world cop doesn't sound all that great with all the problems that can be cause by this, neither is the idea of dozens and dozens of smaller countries always bickering and often fighting in order to either change or maintain the existing status quo. — dclements
Now, I'm liberal, to a degree
I want ev'rybody to be free
But if you think that I'd let Barry Goldwater
Move in next door or marry my daughter
You must think I'm crazy
I wouldn't let him do it for all the farms in Cuba. — I Shall be Free no.10
I disagree with your disagreement. We still live in a world where might almost makes right and that has not changed since either the end of World War II and/or the Cold War. I don't know what makes you believe that either military and/or economic power is irrelevant anymore and the ability of any given country can think and claim they are a superpower because of it, but it seems obvious that the relevance of discussions as to whom is and isn't one should make it clear the importance of such economic/military capacity.Strongly disagree. I think the world without a superpower is where we're headed, and that's a good thing. — T Clark
I guess you forgot about the fact that China is threating military action against Taiwan if Taiwan doesn't surrender to China in the near future. Also they are doing everything and anything they can to take over islands in Pacific through either political pressure or money, as well as threating India and other neighboring countries. Also China is trying to gain power in Africa, as well as trying to use computer espionage in any country they can in order to gain some leverage over whatever/whomever they can.:chin:
Otherwise, your reply does not make anything close to a case for the claim that the Chinese intend to "swallow up one country after another", as you put it. — jamalrob
I disagree with your disagreement. — dclements
the movie "They Live" — dclements
I don't know if it is just wishful thinking on your part or if you have some valid reason why being a superpower isn't important — dclements
The bottom line is even if China isn't able or willing to use military action to get what it wants in the near future, in the coming decades will it be able to use it's economic and/or military might to get whatever it wants and be able to eventually even push the US and her allies into a corner and make it so that the rest of world has to allow China to whatever it wants and eventually allow China to surpass the US as the world's major superpower? — dclements
Hopefully after you watch all these videos you will have a better idea of what China is trying to do. — dclements
I guess you forgot about the fact that China is threating military action against Taiwan if Taiwan doesn't surrender to China in the near future. Also they are doing everything and anything they can to take over islands in Pacific through either political pressure or money, as well as threating India and other neighboring countries. Also China is trying to gain power in Africa, as well as trying to use computer espionage in any country they can in order to gain some leverage over whatever/whomever they can. — dclements
Since that discussion has been been more or less exhausted as to what could be talked about, I thought it might be better to discuss a even bigger issue of China's desire to become the dominant super power in the world and whether they can achieve such a goal. — dclements
When I said I disagree with your disagreement I was kind of just trying to be cute. I could be wrong but certain amount of fear is warranted in the case of dealing with China since they are nearly doing everything in their power to under the US and her allies in the Asia- Pacific region as well as else where. This might sound like the typical far mongering spewed from the West whenever they need a reason to spend more on their military and/or flex their military muscle, but China posses a larger threat then the terrorist in the middle east could EVER pose to the world. When I was younger I never thought it was really necessary to invade and/or start wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc just because they hold either oil or other strategic interest to the US but I don't think it is an option for the US and her allies to just sit on their hands after the actions they have taken in the recent years..Many people disagree with many of my disagreements. No surprise. You and I see things differently. I've seen the trouble fear will get us into. — T Clark
You misread my post, it has really nothing to do with the movie and more about the problem of the misuse of power and the fact that those who often have almost all the power think that "might makes right" and that they are not accountable to the crimes they commit because they have to much power for anyone to hold them accountable. I could be wrong but I think you know the difference between living in a democracy from living in an authoritarian or military dictatorship. While the US and some of her allies don't really have a true democracy anymore (that is if there ever was one), they are still better then living under a military dictatorship that Hong Kong is under and what other countries will be like if China ever can get their hands on them,Love this movie. I think Rowdy Roddy Piper got an Oscar nomination. Didn't he? On the other hand, I don't plan to develop my foreign policy opinions based on it. — T Clark
Well I agree with you that we are merely plebs to the larger powers that be so are opinions are not really as relevant as those who could do something about it, unless either we can influence someone who can do something or enough of us plebs have a better understanding of the situation.As I noted, I don't think it makes any difference what you and I think is best. I think the days of superpowers are over, whether we like it or not — T Clark
So...
1. The People's Republic of China wants to get the Republic of China back, and will use bullying and coercion to do it.
2. It wants some islands in its vicinity, for trade and control and regional dominance and all that.
3. The Chinese are exploiting Africans in the context of global capitalism.
4. They're doing espionage.
None of this backs up your statement. I don't approve of what they're doing and how they do it, but their foreign adventures are nothing in comparison with those of some other countries. In any case, none of it shows that they intend to actually invade and "swallow up" the rest of the world, as you claimed. That is just your frenzied fantasy. Taiwan is obviously a special case. — jamalrob
Excellent post! :DI think China is already trying to do that and it will only stop if the international community takes concerted action to stop it.
The European Union has just announced a €300bn fund to counteract growing Chinese influence:
EU launches €300bn fund to challenge China’s influence – BBC News
The head of British intelligence has said that China is now the biggest external threat on account of its aggressive foreign policy including espionage and subversive economic activities:
China now our biggest priority, says head of MI6 – The Times
China is trapping poor nations with data snares and debt, says MI6 chief – The Times
And anti-China resistance is growing in Africa, India, and elsewhere:
China calls on citizens to leave eastern Congo after attacks – AP
So, there seems to be growing awareness of the danger posed by China's foreign policy and a certain degree of willingness to put up resistance.
The only problem is that if the West keeps putting pressure on Russia by constantly expanding NATO and interfering in Ukraine and elsewhere, Russia will see itself forced to side with China against the West.
A more logical approach would be for the West to form a united front with Russia, India, Japan, and Africa to stop China's growing economic expansionism and militarism. — Apollodorus
Yeah, this problem goes all the way back to the Cold War where the US government always had the issue of whether it was better to invest in either butter or bullets. Since we have almost always had to spend more money on our military than pretty much all other countries combined it is pretty much a given which of the two gets the most attention. I have a feeling that this isn't going to change at any time in the near future.I think China has the potential to become the new American right-wing bogeyman that keeps us dumping 700 billion tax dollars into a peacetime war machine while children starve, bridges collapse, and public education devolves into for profit bible schools. — Cheshire
Can you be so kind as to give me a link/point out which post you are referring to? I have looked at all your posts in this thread and all I can see in your posts is more or less you merely stating your opinions without really anything to back them up. Maybe I missed something in one of those post or perhaps you are referring to a post in a different thread, however in either case in would be helpful if would show me where in your posts you put something that supports your position and isn't just a statement of what your beliefs or opinions are.Perhaps you have "seen nothing... to explain," but I did give an explanation. I guess you missed it. — T Clark
Yeah, this problem goes all the way back to the Cold War where the US government always had the issue of whether it was better to invest in either butter or bullets. Since we have almost always had to spend more money on our military than pretty much all other countries combined it is pretty much a given which of the two gets the most attention. I have a feeling that this isn't going to change at any time in the near future. — dclements
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.