Part of the problem with the "there is no self, ever, in any way" type of anatta doctrine (which is by now the dominant anatta doctrine in Buddhism) is that it's due to theoretical efforts to construct a coherent Buddhist doctrine, based primarily on the suttas. — baker
I contend that such interpersonal verifiability among epistemic peers within a specialized field of knowledge applies also to religion/spirituality. — baker
One still needs to earn a living, ensure one's place in the world, fight the struggle for survival, for status, for respect. — baker
I contend that such interpersonal verifiability among epistemic peers within a specialized field of knowledge applies also to religion/spirituality. While Janus thinks that I am deluded to think this way. Perhaps he thinks this way also about doctors, engineers, musicians, atheletes, anyone who has expertise in a specialized field of knowledge ... — baker
If you don't hold the beliefs I attributed to you and hence don't disagree with what I've been saying (even though to me your responses made it look as though you were disagreeing) all you have to say is that you don't disagree.
If you do disagree I would like to know precisely what you are disagreeing with and why, otherwise discussion is pointless. All this talk about me feeling this or that, and me projecting this and that is pointless. I'm not interested in that. — Janus
The difference, in a word, is religion. The purpose of religion is not to produce graduates but to bind communities. Graduates or 'free' individuals may not be as inclined to move with the herd. If a religion like Buddhism were actually interested in 'transforming consciousness and the self', wouldn't it do a better job of it after over two thousand years??? — praxis
I contend that such interpersonal verifiability among epistemic peers within a specialized field of knowledge applies also to religion/spirituality. While Janus thinks that I am deluded to think this way. Perhaps he thinks this way also about doctors, engineers, musicians, atheletes, anyone who has expertise in a specialized field of knowledge ... — baker
How come noone wonders what happened to those women afterwards? By Hindu standards, they would not be eligible for marriage anymore, and their only choices for a livelihood afterwards would be begging or prostitution. — baker
I hadn't known of the connection between the chariot analogy in the Upaniṣad and Plato's Phaedrus, although I should have realised there would be a connection. @Apollodorus might find that of interest. — Wayfarer
As a general observation, the fact is that there are many striking parallels between Platonism and Indian philosophy.
For example, the so-called “parable of the chariot” in which the Indian version has the horses standing for the senses, the chariot for the body, the charioteer for the intellect and the rider for the soul (Katha Upanishad) ... — Apollodorus
The manner in which you're conducting this discussion is part of the discussion. — baker
There are many forces antagonistic to Western culture, the Fabian Society and Theosophy must rank a pretty long way down the list. — Wayfarer
Whether they liked it or not, whether they knew it or not, there were few writers, poets, artists, historians, scientists, or critics in postwar Europe whose names were not in some way linked to this covert enterprise.
And also that study of the Pali texts reveals a consistency, clarity and unity of understanding that is of a higher order than those found in any of the other ancient literature. — Wayfarer
Attempting celibacy with nothing else as a foundation for it but Catholic doctrine is a demanding task. Those with a Dharmic foundation have a better chance at it. — baker
The male-skew in India's sex ratio has increased since the early 20th century. In 1901 there were 3.2 million fewer women than men in India, but by the 2001 Census the disparity had increased by more than a factor of 10, to 35 million. This increase has been variously attributed to female infanticide, selective abortions (aided by increasing access to prenatal sex discernment procedures), and female child neglect
In any case, what we increasingly see with the relentless spread of Anglo-American language and culture is not spirituality, or even Theosophy, but the anticulture of guns, drugs, and other antisocial trends. — Apollodorus
Along with reactionary politics, political and economic corruption, environmental destruction, and utter ignorance of any form of spiritual insight or philosophical depth. — Wayfarer
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18).
“Because I live, you also will live” (John 14:19)
Ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you (1 Corinthians 3:16)
Question: The fundamental question in philosophy is whether mind and body are separate or not.
Krishnamurti: I have no philosophy.
Question: I want your opinion.
Krishnamurti: I have no opinion.
Question: I want to be enlightened.
Krishnamurti: You are going to be enlightened, Sir, if you listen. Sir, to find the truth of this matter, we must not follow anybody. Philosophy means the love of truth, not the love of theories, not the love of speculations, not the love [of] beliefs, but the love of truth, and truth isn't yours or mine, and therefore you cannot follow anybody. When once you realize this basic fact that truth cannot be found through another, but you have to have eyes to see it, it may be there with a dead leaf, but you have to see it. And to offer an opinion about it, is ridiculous. Only fools offer opinions.
We are not dealing with opinions, we are concerned with this fact, which is, whether the mind has a quality, has a state or an inwardness which is not touched by the physical. Do you understand my question? Which is the question you are putting me - whether the mind is independent of the body, whether the mind is beyond all the petty, nationalistic, religious limitations? To find that out, you have to be extraordinarily alert and watchful. You have to become aware, sensitive. If you are very sensitive, which means intelligent, you will find out if you go into it very, very deeply, that there is something which is never touched by thought or by the past.
You know thought is matter, thought is the response of memory, memory is in the brain cells themselves, it is matter, and whether the brain cells can be so completely quiet, then only you will find out; but to say that there is or there is not, has no meaning. But to find out, to give your life to this, as you give your life to earning a livelihood - and here, where you need tremendous energy, a great passion to find out, you drink at other people's fountains which are dry. Therefore you have to be a light to yourself, therefore in that there is freedom.
I don’t think the style of Buddhist suttas is necessarily a reliable criterion by which to judge spiritual attainment — Apollodorus
Philosophy means the love of truth, not the love of theories, not the love of speculations, not the love [of] beliefs, but the love of truth, — Wayfarer
These are not my words; they are the words of the Master who taught me. Without Him I could have done nothing, but through His help I have set my feet upon the Path. You also desire to enter the same Path, so the words which He spoke to me will help you also, if you will obey them … So to hear the Master’s words is not enough, you must do what He says, attending to every word, taking every hint (At the Feet of the Master)
The Buddha, the Christ, and other great Teachers of the world, went to the source of life. They became the Master Artists. Once knowing the nature and the supreme greatness of the Source, They became Themselves that Source, the Path, and the Embodiment of Wisdom and Love (The Kingdom of Happiness).
Almost all the Indians who joined the Theosophical Society came from the western-educated elite. The British adopted a policy - most famously expounded by Macaulay – of educating an Indian elite in a western manner with the intention that this elite then would stand between the colonial rulers and the rest of the Indian people.
If traditional culture, with all its faults, has been merely replaced with an artificial pseudo-culture with its own fabricated mythology and propaganda, and revolving on Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, the Kardashians, gangsta rap, posing on Instagram, and wearing face masks, then it seems difficult to claim that it has been an unmitigated success. — Apollodorus
At the end of the day, if we don’t even know things that happen on this small planet of ours, how can we grasp the larger realities of higher planes? I — Apollodorus
In any case, if we are saying that the Fabians “had nothing to do with anything”, the Theosophists “had nothing to do with anything”, the CIA “had nothing to do with anything”, the Brahma Kumaris “had nothing to do with anything”, the Hare Krishnas “had nothing to do with anything”, etc., etc., then we are left with the puzzle of no one having had anything to do with anything, and with the even bigger puzzle as to why so many claim, and the facts suggest, otherwise. — Apollodorus
If traditional culture, with all its faults, has been merely replaced with an artificial pseudo-culture with its own fabricated mythology and propaganda, and revolving on Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, the Kardashians, gangsta rap, posing on Instagram, and wearing face masks, then it seems difficult to claim that it has been an unmitigated success. — Apollodorus
Salvation is not to be found in an afterlife, but must be found, if at all, in this life, and belief in an afterlife or lack of an afterlife would seem to be a hindrance to ataraxia, a state of mind which would more likely come with a wholeheartedly lived suspension of judgement. — Janus
1. they generally lack ambition in spiritual life;
2. they believe they are already enlightened;
3. they believe they are inevitably close to being enlightened;
4. they believe enlightenment is an ancient, "highfalutin" idea that has no place in modern life;
5. they flat-out don't care about whether they become enlightened or not. — baker
Not through being historians, if that is what you mean. — Wayfarer
I think this is a reference to samadhi - there's a stage in meditation, called 'nirvikalpa samadhi' - 'nirvikalpa' means 'the negation of mental formations'. — Wayfarer
It's not style, it's the content, the meaning. — Wayfarer
One can agree they played their role without attributing them as the sole cause of the 'downfall of the West'. (You do seem to have an ax to grind in their case.) — Wayfarer
You left out Marvel and Star Wars, (the replacements for Homer and the Old Testament) the true source of Mythos for most Westerners these days. — Tom Storm
But I do believe that people might develop personal qualities that some might describe as enlightened. — Tom Storm
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