I remember an answer which when quite young I was prompted to make to a valued adviser, who was wont to importune me with the dear old doctrines of the church. On my saying, What have I to do with the sacredness of traditions, if I live wholly from within? my friend suggested, — “But these impulses may be from below, not from above.” I replied, “They do not seem to me to be such; but if I am the Devil’s child, I will live then from the Devil.” No law can be sacred to me but that of my nature. — T Clark

Goodness. A profound idea.

I've been reading Whitman's Leaves of Grass and it is quite extraordinary.

Dear Harold Bloom said of Emerson: "Emerson is the mind of our climate; he is the principal source of the American difference in poetry and criticism and in pragmatic postphilosophy." Do you think this holds?

But by your own hypothesis this is not true. unenlightened is enlightened; he just doesn't realise/hasn't realised it. In which case, unenlightenment is a 'mistake' that one is continuously making. — unenlightened

What's the difference between not having a gun (when you need it) and not knowing you have a gun (when you need it)?

:chin:

You never need a gun. If it is a question of kill or be killed, choose 'be killed'. But the difference is that a banana doesn't look right, and you can never find the trigger.

What is it to be Enlightened?

To be enlightened is to find out that you were wrong in thinking a particular thought and instead of doubling down you change your mind.

What is it to be Enlightened?

To be enlightened is to find out that you were wrong in thinking a particular thought and instead of doubling down you change your mind. — Harry Hindu

Wrong.

Meaning that chicken are enlightened.
— baker

And...? — Janus

Apparently you're not familiar with the pun ... A famous Buddhist teacher once said that if being able to sit for long periods of time would be any guarantee of enlightenment, then chickens would be enlightened.

Wrong. — praxis

I love to watch when people argue about enlightenment.

Narcissism is wrong too.

Wrong — praxis

:grin:
Then enlighten me about enlightenment. Am I enlightened now when I'm "wrong", or when I change my mind and agree with you?

In the East it mean the realization of emptiness. In the West it means weight-loss.

In the East it mean the realization of emptiness. In the West it means weight loss. — praxis

Then what enlightenment is is subjective?

Then what enlightenment is is subjective? — Harry Hindu

How much do you weigh?

Stanford Encyclopedia suggests that “Nietzsche’s psychology treats the self as something that has to be achieved or constructed, rather than as something fundamentally given as part of the basic metaphysical equipment with which a person enters the world.” — Joshs

But not as something to be permanently deconstructed, overcome.
It seems that in Nietzsche's view, there should exist a series of selves; one overcoming the other.
Whereas in some ideologies, enlightenment has to do with stopping the process of selfing altogether.

How much do you weigh? — praxis

Are you in the East or the West?

Are you in the East or the West? — Harry Hindu

West, so report in pounds.

Dear Harold Bloom said of Emerson: "Emerson is the mind of our climate; he is the principal source of the American difference in poetry and criticism and in pragmatic postphilosophy." Do you think this holds? — Tom Storm

I like the way it sounds, but I don't know what it means. I've never cared for Emerson's poetry much.

To be enlightened is to find out that you were wrong in thinking a particular thought and instead of doubling down you change your mind. — Harry Hindu

Then enlighten me about enlightenment. Am I enlightened now when I'm "wrong", or when I change my mind and agree with you? — Harry Hindu

Come on HH, you know the sense in which you are using "enlightenment" is different than how others on this thread are using it. You are intentionally being difficult.

Then what enlightenment is is subjective? — Harry Hindu

Enlightenment is an experience, so, yes, I guess that means it's subjective.

West, so report in pounds. — praxis

16.4 stone.

Not merely sitting, but sitting in a certain way; nothing to do with chickens. This is not according to me, but according to Soto Zen. On the other hand all animals are said to have the Buddha Nature, so...

I like the way it sounds, but I don't know what it means. I've never cared for Emerson's poetry much. — T Clark

I agree, his essays are much better...he's not much of a poet.

"Hap-piness is a warm gun"?. :wink:

On the other hand all animals are said to have the Buddha Nature, so... — Janus

So mu.

So mu. — praxis

Mu-tha?

Can't read it, sorry...not bad calligraphy, though... :wink:

This is more legible

Different strokes for different folks, I say. That one is good though. :up:

What is it to be Enlightened?
Less sarcastic form of apathy.

Less sarcastic form of apathy. — Cheshire

Can you say more? Do you mean to say that unattachment is a less pejorative manifestation of apathy?

'apathea' was originally a virtue. Its meaning was close to the 'detachment' that was the subject of the quote from Meister Eckhardt. It was originally associated with the Sceptics and Stoics, whose aim was to remain unmoved by events and happenings whilst maintaining a state of tranquility. Nowadays it mainly means selfish unconcern or absence of empathy.

Can you say more? Do you mean to say that unattachment is a less pejorative manifestation of apathy? — Tom Storm

I think Mr. @Cheshire just means that he doesn't understand and can't imagine what is meant by "Enlightenment" in the context we are discussing it. That allows him to reject its value with a smug sneer.

The one you posted is probably more "Zen". :cool: