It may be depressing to you because you sense that hope and optimism, while advantageous in the short term, ultimately prolongs unpleasant things unnecessarily, and that possessing them is ignorant or foolish.

At least that's the way it is with me, I think.

You would think, someone that is hopeful, optimistic and has an idealistic view of the future would be uplifting, encouraging and motivational, but I find these views, or the concepts that hold about the world to only further depress me further. — Cobra

Pessimists and optimists are equally boring to me. Both take it as a forgone conclusion that they have things sussed and that their take on life/history/politics/culture is indisputable. There are few things more tedious.

At least the OP doesn't find the idealism-optimism cocktail annoying (yet). S/he'll get there (in no time if I'm anywhere near the truth).

In your defense OP, your, I think, sympathy (hence "depressing") towards people who will be rudely awakened from their reveries is a sign that your heart is in the right place.

Make sure you're there to say...

Life is what it is. — Cobra

which is what?

I don't mind optimistic people. The problem is if they are Polyanish. If they gloss over the negative. If their optimism needs to push down on the negative feelings of those around them. So, some optimistic (or 'optimistic') people bother me, others do not.

Often, people who make a point of appearing hopeful, optimistic and as having an idealistic view of the future are actually deeply unhappy and scared. The apparent hopefulness, optimism, and idealism are just attempts to cover up their unhappiness and fear.

If one recognizes this dichotomy, recognizes this underlying unhappiness of theirs, this is then the depressing effect of apparent optimism.

Because people with hope change the world. If we all accepted, "It is what it is", people wouldn't work to change things. Changing thing is difficult, and the ground is littered with the corpses of failed attempts. But even a 1% chance of change has a chance.

My guess is that you were likely an optimistic person at one time in your life, and you failed. So from personal experience, you know that it is likely that other optimistic people will fail, and that idea depresses and saddens you.

But don't forget the big picture! Throw enough bodies at something over time, and it WILL change.

Well my immediate reaction is that you are depressed and therefore you see their optimism in a negative light. The question you ask should in principle be rephrased, "why are idealistic, optimistic people depressing to me? That has psychological causes. You feel you are stuck in life and they seem not to be. That causes resentment and further depression.

That said: a lot of 'optimism' we see nowadays, for instance in slogans like 'life is what you make of it', or 'you just have to be yourself', 'success is a choice', are not really optimistic or motivattional, though they are shrouded in motivational garb. They lay responsibility at your own feet and do not give you any clue what to do with it. In that way, for someone who is depressed they add insult to injury because if you are not successful (or feel you are not) than you apparently have not been paying attention or tried hard enough. That of course depresses. In the OP you seem to switch from discussing optimistic people to the agruments they give. These should be kept apart. I think perhaps you have nothing against optimistic people but the phrases they use nowadays. The depression those words cause is unfortunate, but not wholly unexpected. You becoming depressed over them has to do with them speaking to you on an emotional level, but you did not yet unmask them for what they are, hollow phrases that have in fact nothing to do with optimism.

You would think, someone that is hopeful, optimistic and has an idealistic view of the future would be uplifting, encouraging and motivational, but I find these views, or the concepts that hold about the world to only further depress me further. — Cobra

I love the world. I am constantly amazed by how well it all holds together. How beautiful things are.

I also love people, both in the aggregate and, usually, individually. I love being around them, talking to them, trying to understand them. I have never met anyone who I could not see the humanity, soul, of, if I tried.

I wouldn't call myself an optimist. I don't necessarily think that everything will work out for the best, but I'm with Lao Tzu:

Success is as dangerous as failure.
Hope is as hollow as fear.

What does it mean that success is a dangerous as failure?
Whether you go up the ladder or down it,
you position is shaky.
When you stand with your two feet on the ground,
you will always keep your balance.

What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear?
Hope and fear are both phantoms
that arise from thinking of the self.
When we don't see the self as self,
what do we have to fear?

See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.

The Tao Te Ching, Verse 13, Stephen Mitchell translation.

Pessimists and optimists are equally boring to me. Both take it as a forgone conclusion that they have things sussed and that their take on life/history/politics/culture is indisputable. There are few things more tedious. — Tom Storm

:100: :strong: I find optimists to be somewhat novel, at least in the pool where I swim. But novel only goes so far.

Well, depends on the type of optimism.

If it's Leibniz optimism "We live in the best of all possible worlds", then yeah, that's quite stupid. Even geniuses as Leibniz undoubtedly was, say pretty silly things.

But then if a person argues for optimism as the basis for trying to get the world to a better place and thus not succumbing to authority and what is forced upon you, then that kind of optimism is quite sensible.

It's going to boil down to the type of optimist you have in mind.

No matter how much you make the present better, for me, the facts remain of the circumstances. Life is what it is. — Cobra

Is the life of a slave much the same as the life of Leonardo DiCaprio then?

There is the fact that if you give a miserable man a winning lottery ticket you get a miserable millionaire ( https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1980-01001-001 ), but that isn't to say all miseries or joys are played out irrespective of circumstances. Slavery would make a happy person unhappy, which suggests that improving the lot of people overall would improve their lives overall.

Q: Why are idealists, optimists and people with "hope" so depressing?

A: For the same reason that sad songs say so much to so many … this at least some of the time.

Example: when you’re devastated from a broken heart being told to cheer up on account of there being more fish in the sea brings you down, not up. But being told the situation is awful helps to relieve the pain, making you feel better.

Example: when you’re devastated from a broken heart being told to cheer up on account of there being more fish in the sea brings you down, not up. But being told the situation is awful helps to relieve the pain, making you feel better. — javra

Yep. In counselling we might call this validating and acknowledging. Without it people don't feel understood or heard.

That from improving ones life, life itself becomes a more enjoyable experience, or that you should at least hope for that "in the long run". — Cobra

That makes life sound like some kind of trust fund; Some balance between resources explains outcomes.

But actual optimism is not confidence in a return but persistence in a method; Not knowing if it is all for not.

So, it is like not proving the existence of love. If one assumes it exists, events unfold a certain way. If one does not, other stuff happens.

We underestimate our own ability to learn and how much learning can improve our life.

Life doesn't need to be perfect, we only need enough pleasure to keep going.

positive ideas that are very true will be accepted. fake positivity will be rejected

If it's Leibniz optimism "We live in the best of all possible worlds", then yeah, that's quite stupid. Even geniuses as Leibniz undoubtedly was, say pretty silly things. — Manuel

How ironic that only his personal secretary attended his funeral.

I thought they did not even know where he was buried. He died completely neglected.

It's fair that know he's recognized for all he did, which was quite a lot.

I don't know. Whatever it is.

Yeah, I agree. They don't really bother me personally, but the ones the other way definitely do.

I think your comment, just about covers this, for me.... :grin: