I think the kinds of suppositions that would make a ‘meta’ useful or even coherent have been unraveled by phenomenological approaches. — Joshs
What is the non-conditional good that is universally applicable to all value judgments that anyone can make ( — javra
All questions pre-suppose the conditions of their possibility. So your question pre-supposes the coherence of the idea of something being able to be thought that is beyond all conditions and contingencies, and it also assumes the coherence of the universal. But for phenomenology both of these. it is are derived abstractions generated from a subjectivity that is radically contingent and temporal — Joshs
I think the kinds of suppositions that would make a ‘meta’ useful or even coherent [in relation to meta-ethics] have been unraveled by phenomenological approaches. — Joshs
A1) If nothing in this world has intrinsic value, then the following follows;
A2) Intrinsic value is entirely subjective. — Shawn
Just seems to illustrate what I initially affirmed: phenomenology does not address meta-ethics. — javra
I wonder that if in some way a phenomenological approach and its wholesale 'dissolution' of totalizing metanarratives is not in itself a form of metanarrative. Can one make the claim that what we experience are intersubjective agreements between localized communities of narrative (and the personal, subjective location), without this coming from a totalizing viewpoint? — Tom Storm
I can see the relativist’s take on this … that all our best current assumptions of objective reality are narratives. But I don’t concede to there being no objective reality in actuality on account of the logical contradiction previously mentioned that this brings about. (Yes, here upholding the law/principle of noncontradiction.) — javra
Oh. I get the point. Intrinsic value is useless, it has no utility, not good for something else.....I was a bit slow on this. I thought you had no use for the idea itself. — Astrophel
But for phenomenology both of these notions are derived abstractions generated from a subjectivity that is radically contingent and temporal. To the extent there are universal structures for phenomenology they are empty formalisms holding no value content. — Joshs
The trick is to reconcile the vagaries of subjectivity with the requirements of intrinsic value. — Astrophel
I wonder that if in some way a phenomenological approach and its wholesale 'dissolution' of totalizing metanarratives is not in itself a form of metanarrative. Can one make the claim that what we experience are intersubjective agreements between localized communities of narrative (and the personal, subjective location), without this coming from a totalizing viewpoint? — Tom Storm
I wrote a paper comparing Varela and Thompsons’s approach to meditation to phenomenology. It’s titled A Phenomenological Critique of Mindfulness. You might find it interesting. — Joshs
Yes, they are making a claim, and yes that claim can be critiqued, but that doesn’t make it a meta narrative. It works differently than this. It is self-reflexive in it’s core, grounding intrinsicality in movement and transition. It isn’t claiming to do away with truth or objectivity , but to set these concepts in motion and talk about them from within this transit. — Joshs
I find this statement beautiful. — javra
It's like being in love. [...] I want to be a 'teenager in love" but it's just that I don't want to be a teenager, unaware, blind, driven rather than driving. — Astrophel
There is a saying you will find in mystical literature of various cultures, ‘the good that has no opposite’. This is distinguished from what is normally considered ‘good’ as that is always conditional, i.e. what is good is what is not bad, a good outcome, pleasure as distinct from pain, gain as distinct from loss, and so on. In an instrumental or utilitarian view, then morality is about ‘maximising’ these goods, but logically speaking, they’re dependent on their opposites in order to exist. Whereas the ‘good that has no opposite’ is outside those kinds of reference frames. — Wayfarer
Hey, if the pinnacle of wisdom isn't about being young at heart, in spite of all the suffering and such, then I don't want it. Said emotionally, rationally, both. — javra
Tried to access your music but it wouldn't play. Any suggestions?
Isn't this the obvious truth? When I am IN a good experience, a really good one, I am not aware of anything else. Its "dependence" only comes into play when engagement is compromised. — Astrophel
He thought, with Wordsworth, that growing up and becoming encultured (inherited sin, not original sin) was inherently sinful, and he simply was referring to the unquestioned engagement of one's affairs. — Astrophel
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