There's a difference. — ssu
a reason why Russia invaded Crimea and the Donbas region, — Apollodorus
Talk of ethnicity, democracy, denazification, de-islamification, or removal of oppression, always seem to become important near oilfields. — unenlightened
Ports and oil, I'd imagine, using Deep Throat's principle, 'follow the money'. — unenlightened
Really? do you have a recent war to which it doesn't apply? — unenlightened
you want to try and make a partisan point of it. :sad: — unenlightened
Following the money is, more often than not, applied only post hoc after deciding who the target of blame should be. — Isaac
And who is the target of your blame for this reprehensible post hoc deciding? — unenlightened
you want to try and make a partisan point of it. — unenlightened
I would like to make a discussion of war that does not mimic its topic, and this does not help me. — unenlightened
So let me repeat, again:If you want to use figures to make the claim that Russia cares less about civilian deaths than America, then you need to compare the actual number of civilian deaths each country has knowingly caused, in total, by it's various actions. Anything less is just lying with statistics. — Isaac
Are you genuinely implying that you don't see any difference in the civilian death toll? — ssu
Unfortunate then that you're on a public forum whose membership is not limited to those who already agree with you. — Isaac
We can disagree about things without casting moral aspersions at each other or exchanging insults. — unenlightened
Double down on your stupidity why not? — unenlightened
your insulting stupidity — unenlightened
We can disagree about things without casting moral aspersions at each other or exchanging insults.
— unenlightened
Ah, I see. Such as...
Double down on your stupidity why not?
— unenlightened
your insulting stupidity
— unenlightened — Isaac
yet again you are making a conflict where there is no reason to. — unenlightened
Ports and oil — unenlightened
What I've said is that in the Russian (and earlier Soviet) way of warfare there is an extensive use of artillery.What you've failed to show is any kind of general trend, nor any link between direct military casualties, specifically, and an increased disregard for civilian lives above those destroyed by any other method (such as starvation or pecuniary loan terms). — Isaac
Here, on this thread, we have ample evidence of people enthusiastic about following the money to Russian actors, but vehemently opposed to any suggestion that a similar process could lay an equal amount of suspicion on American arms dealers, European financial institutions, and Western industries in general who stand to gain billions from a prolonged war which results in a ruined Russia. — Isaac
Someone might add that it's especially Ukraine that is baring the brunt of the war as the war is fought in Ukraine, not in Russia, and naturally Western financial institutions are anticipating to gain profits from rebuilding Ukraine, not Russia. — ssu
What I've said is that in the Russian (and earlier Soviet) way of warfare there is an extensive use of artillery. — ssu
the numbers from Afghanistan, Syria and the two Chechen wars simply show that Russia doesn't care so much about civilian casualties. — ssu
It would be interesting if you could tell us just who where oppose the idea that " American arms dealers, European financial institutions, and Western industries in general who stand to gain billions from a prolonged war which results in a ruined Russia." — ssu
any suggestion that a similar process could lay an equal amount of suspicion on American arms dealers, European financial institutions, and Western industries in general who stand to gain billions from a prolonged war which results in a ruined Russia. — Isaac
A counter argument to @Apollodorus suggesting they could have because American's certainly did and yet caused no fewer civilian casualties. — Isaac
Military tactics on the use of artillery equivalent to cuts in social spending?Your technical point about Russian use of artillery seems almost entirely unrelated. I can see perhaps that their choice to use artillery shows a pretty callous disregard for civilian casualties in military offensives, but America's use of pecuniary loan terms attached to cuts in social spending shows a pretty callous disregard for civilian lives also, just via a different method. — Isaac
That you don't see anything wrong in the actions that Putin has done, like starting a war with Ukraine, and see the fault in the US simply shows how Pro-Putin you are.I believe that it is in the West’s best interest for America, Europe, and Russia to be allies, not enemies. Unfortunately, this is impossible when America has made it its life mission to “keep the Germans down and Russia out”. — Apollodorus
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