Hmm. Are you really asking this or just taking the piss? Most qualities you name have to be understood in relation to something, that's how it works. No debate here.

Let me ask you - what is flawlessness and who do you decide if something is flawless?

I think of perfection or “flawlessness” as a state that exists when something has been improved to the point that it has become the best that it could possibly be. For example if an archer were to shoot arrows at a target and hit the target every time then I would consider their performance to have been flawless. So perfection or “flawlessness” would be a notion associated with successfully achieving objectives consistently. Something would be flawed if it only occasionally was associated with desired outcomes due to luck or some other factor unconnected to actual ability.

[ Sure, but what does it mean to say a person lived a flawless life? If it only means succeeding in what they chose to succeed in - this is problematic. It means we can include thieves, racists, murderers if they achieve their objectives. And it also begs the question, what about the areas they did not choose to excel - possibly friendship, family, morality? Is someone with enormous gaps in their life flawless?

I highly doubt you believe success is connected to what we voluntarily chose to do. Isn’t success dependent upon objective necessity? Can one really consistently succeed at anything if one fails to factor in the real conditions that surround the individual?

If it only means succeeding in what they chose to succeed in - this is problematic. — Tom Storm

If an archer only shot arrows at a target that was impossible to miss I doubt that anyone would consider them a master marksman.

Average, whenever we talk it seems to me you don't engage with the points I make and go off on an unconnected tangents. Since this doesn't happen with too may others here I'm going to assume we don't connect.

highly doubt you believe success is connected to what we voluntarily chose to do. Isn’t success dependent upon objective necessity — Average

Is this what I said? Read my response. No point going further if this is your take home message. Here's a clue - you are talking about a flawless life. How is this defined?

if I’m failing to engage with your points I apologize but I’m trying my best. I know that you didn’t say those words which is why I said I doubt that you agree with them. Keep in mind that I’m just trying to have some fun too. Also my background is in rhetoric not dialectic.

you are talking about a flawless life. How is this defined? — Tom Storm

I’m not sure what kind of answer would satisfy you.

Carl Jung saw the way in which religious perspectives, especially the history of Christianity, emphasised the goal of perfection. He maintained that people struggled with this, and the inferior side of human nature, which he called the shadow, was formed in the process, with potential for human destruction.

Of course, his perspective is open to critique but so is the idea of perfection. It may be easier for those who are in relative privileged positions to live up to than for the disadvantaged. In other words, those who have an easier life may have less difficulty reaching for the highest ideals than those who are struggling to survive.

Of course, it does come down to how the idea or ideal of perfection is viewed. Within Christianity, Jesus spoke of the hollow spirituality of the Pharisees. That was about adherence to the outer aspects of morality, as opposed to looking at it on a deeper level.

Whether one looks at the idea of perfection from one religious perspective or from a purely philosophical one, one could ask what does perfection mean? Is it the absence of mistakes and is it something which can be measured at all, especially in relation to action. Is perfection more a state of mind? It can also be disputed at how it can be achieved and whether it may be arrived at intrinsically or after learning from mistakes and does this matter in how the concept of perfection is viewed?

Is perfection more a state of mind? — Jack Cummins

I doubt it but I’m not sure what would qualify as a state of mind in your view.

It may be easier for those who are in relative privileged positions to live up to than for the disadvantaged. In other words, those who have an easier life may have less difficulty reaching for the highest ideals than those who are struggling to survive. — Jack Cummins

You might be right but I have reason to suspect that this is probably not the case.

Whether one looks at the idea of perfection from one religious perspective or from a purely philosophical one, one could ask what does perfection mean? Is it the absence of mistakes and is it something which can be measured at all, especially in relation to action. Is perfection more a state of mind? It can also be disputed at how it can be achieved and whether it may be arrived at intrinsically or after learning from mistakes and does this matter in how the concept of perfection is viewed? — Jack Cummins

That's exactly the right approach, I think, if you are going to ask such a question.

I am not sure how you define perfection? People see it differently with some emphasising piety and some as about being the highest example of a human being. But it does make a difference how it is judged, especially whether it is about the way one lives or about an underlying attitude to life. It does not help to generalise or say that it needs to be about both because that makes it seem so abstract and unachievable. Actually, it is this vagueness which makes it seem unrealistic as a goal. When I grew up as a Catholic, I was aware of 'sin' and the ideal of perfection was there as an ultimate extreme, which only 'saints' might live up to and I gave up the goal of being a saint long before adolescence.

But it does make a difference how it is judged, especially whether it is about the way one lives or about an underlying attitude to life. — Jack Cummins

I think that it has more to do with the way one lives. I don’t really know a whole lot about underlying attitudes.

I am not sure how you define perfection? — Jack Cummins

I don’t have any formal training when it comes to developing definitions. Maybe people who write dictionaries do but I don’t. I’m like a blind man trying to find his way in the darkness.

Is it the absence of mistakes and is it something which can be measured at all — Jack Cummins

I think it can be measured mathematically.

You’re a fortunate man if you’ve never had to encounter something that you detest. I wish I was that lucky. — Average

Encounter is the wrong word. Try imagine. We could have a notion of perfection. Imagine something perfect. Although, I want to take back what I said that I detest perfection. There are a few things in life that are perfect, whose qualities I do not detest:

Eggs -- are perfect. The shape, size, and nutritional value.

Small birds are perfect, like hummingbirds.

The moon looks perfect.

Some pine trees are perfect.

Some bells sound perfect -- like the big church bells.

Some rock formations are perfect. The outcroppings of boulders are perfect to me.

Small birds are perfect, like hummingbirds. — L'éléphant

Yup

You're assuming fact is something that's readily available to the average person and comprehendible and not just popular beliefs. — MAYAEL

Maybe you’re right.

perfection is impossible — Average

One can't then expect a perfect answer to your question, oui?

:point: Perfect is the enemy of the good

Le meglio è l'inimico del bene. — Voltaire

Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without. — Confucius

The obvious or natural question is "does God exist?" and what about the ontological argument?

I don’t see any difference between diamonds and pebbles but maybe you’re right about there being no perfect answer to my question.

there is no comparison to perfection, or rather, a target to which one must achieve to have lived a life of perfection, thus, although you may believe you are making the best choice in each scenario, you may have a lack of knowledge etc to take other factors into account which may have given the scenario a more preferable outcome, but again, every being is completely different when it comes to the many experiences they are built of and their logic and so everyone's perfect would also be different contradicting perfection.

every being is completely different when it comes to the many experiences they are built of and their logic and so everyone's perfect would also be different contradicting perfection. — DAC

Could you give me an example that would illustrate clearly whatever it is that you are trying to communicate?

although you may believe you are making the best choice in each scenario, you may have a lack of knowledge etc to take other factors into account which may have given the scenario a more preferable outcome — DAC

The only message I can take away from this portion of your message is that knowledge is necessary for perfection.

I'm trying to say, idea of perfect is different to yours so there will never be an objective perfect which is necessary to have perfect.

I'm trying to say, idea of perfect is different to yours so there will never be an objective perfect which is necessary to have perfect. — DAC

Just because we have different ideas doesn’t mean that there are no correct ideas. Someone could be right and someone could be wrong.

Imperfection seems to come inherently with existence

Maybe you’re right.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWZZNfFP8bk