So then a guy comes along celebrating the joys of rape, and you can't tell him rape is wrong, but only that he's defective because he doesn't intuitively know that rape is wrong, even though you just got through saying rape isn't wrong in an absolute way. — Hanover
You've just presented an objective basis for determining morality. You're not arguing relatavism any more. — Hanover
If "flourishing" is the objective goal, you've got to offer some reason why. If it is just because it is, that is equivalent to "god says so." — Hanover
"Free pass" just according to you, or are you invoking the idea of higher authority? If it is just you; I have to say the idea of an individual disapproving of nature seems somehow absurd. — Janus
But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind? — Charles Darwin, private correspondence
But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind? — Charles Darwin, private correspondence
...finding truths... — Agent Smith
I'm pretty confident that you agree that rape is wrong — Banno
The expectation of an incontrovertible moral principle is naive, even childish. — Banno
It's not from reason and not from the heavens, so I'm running out of options. — Hanover
Presuming that our convictions are nothing more than instinctive responses, the idea of questioning the morality of a purported higher authority really is incoherent, because the whole idea of a higher authority, and the question itself, would also be nothing more than instinctive responses. — Janus
Although morality does not stand on absolute grounds that does not mean that we do not stand absolutely for or against certain actions. — Fooloso4
So much for the sovereignty of reason, then. Rather vitiates philosophy, doesn't it? (Oh, the irony.) — Wayfarer
Ok, so what is this "core insight"? — Banno
So much for the sovereignty of reason, then. — Wayfarer
Sure, we can be absolutely opposed to rape and treat it as if no person can question its immorality ever, but why we suspend our reason and afford it absolute evil status when we know it's really just a subjective preference just means we've arrived at an interesting coping mechanism in order to navigate this godless world. — Hanover
:clap: Amen!If I attempt to relate that - even considering I possess it, which I don't - if you're not even open to the possibility that it is so, then there's nothing to discuss.
— Wayfarer
That's how you shoot yourself in the foot, and why so many here don't take you seriously.
Such a self-deprecating remark as you make above is either a sample of false humility (which is offputting), or just a plain declaration of incompetence (which is also offputting). — baker
we suspend our reason — Hanover
:100:Alright, so for all here who have settled upon relativistic morality, explain the basis of your moral outrage against the rapist and why I should find your reasons compelling.— Hanover
If you do not find rape repellent, then that is about you, not about rape. If you need an argument to convi[nce] you that you ought not do such things, you are morally bankrupt. — Banno
Well, the point is that we do philosophy regardless, and we take ourselves to be making sense. How do we know that is not compatible with our intellects having evolved naturalistically? — Janus
n. With the new research, theorists have begun to question whether moral emotions might hold a larger role in determining morality, one that might even surpass that of moral reasoning." — ZzzoneiroCosm
You see what I meant by 'subjectivizing'? — Wayfarer
If you do not find rape repellent, then that is about you, not about rape. If you need an argument to convict you that you ought not do such things, you are morally bankrupt. — Banno
:fire:Darwin's faith was tested severely when he learned about the hatching behavior of a wasp.
"I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent & omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ [parasitic wasps] with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars…”
Charles Darwin — Tom Storm
Before the Enlightenment, reason was seen as an objective force in the world. Now, it is seen as a "subjective faculty of the mind". — Wayfarer
Do you situate the source of ethics and morals in the perennial philosophy you referred to above? — ZzzoneiroCosm
This is true of nihilism and – once again – not (moral) "naturalism". :roll:... assured by naturalism that the Universe has no inherent meaning, that the idea that life has a reason for existing is an anachronistic throwback to an ignorant age. — Wayfarer
What makes you think god/s are against rape (have you read the Old Testament/Tanakh)? What makes you think a god's moral positions are useful, if they can even be identified? — Tom Storm
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