Examples include - using physical strength and height to intimidate other people (especially women), hatred of gay people; hyper masculinity - sexually inappropriate towards women; use of violence (or threats thereof) to influence behavior or punish others; inability to access and fear of emotions (except aggression and anger). — Tom Storm
And yes, women can be badly behaved too but, from what I've seen, not quite in the same pugnacious manner or as frequently. — Tom Storm
This is a myth.women still love tall handsome masculine man, biology doesn't lie. — Wittgenstein
If the only way you can stand up for men is by putting women down, you're just playing the same game as the people you oppose. — T Clark
Examples include - using physical strength and height to intimidate other people (especially women), hatred of gay people; hyper masculinity - sexually inappropriate towards women; use of violence (or threats thereof) to influence behavior or punish others; inability to access and fear of emotions (except aggression and anger).
This doesn't mean a masculine man can't be a nice guy — Wittgenstein
but I’d disagree. If a woman is on a date with a man, and goes along with sexual activities she is not comfortable with to appease her partner without speaking her mind, this would be an example of submissiveness and agreeableness to a “toxic” level. Hence toxic femininity. One could also argue the obsession over looks, how fit one is, how slim one is, etc is another angle of toxic femininity.There's nothing toxic about being too submissive, agreeable,
I’m having a hard time figuring out what your argument is here… You start by questioning whether there can be something like “toxic femininity,” and then go on to give examples of how masculinity is socially constructed. I would expect most contemporary gender theorists would agree that both masculinity and femininity are socially constructed, at least to a significant extent. You then seem to claim that since they are both socially constructed, bad behavior of both should be equally condemned. The issue is that there are different kinds of bad behavior, as you yourself suggest when you move from considering “toxic” behavior to “annoying” behavior. Needless to say, toxic and annoying are quite different things, particularly because they imply substantially different levels of harm. Where I’m really confused is how you think that “annoying” feminine behavior is comparable to “toxic” masculine behavior…
Just occurred to me that I could have tried signing up with the correct spelling('contributor' instead of 'contributer') on this forum. The former was already taken on reddit. — Valued contributer
There's nothing toxic about being too submissive, agreeable, etc. — Valued contributer
Would you say that pointing out a form of hypocrisy in society's treatment of the two genders is standing up for one by putting the other down? — Valued contributer
Yes, I think it is. I've taken exactly the position you're taking in previous discussions. I came to realize that setting this up as a men vs. women thing hurts more than it helps. That's what infuriates me about a lot of feminist ideas. — T Clark
there is something inherently toxic about masculinity. — Tzeentch
If toxic masculinity as currently defined boils down to improper behavior that is ultimately the result of social pressure, couldn't the same be said for improper female behavior that's also coaxed by society? — Valued contributer
I could have tried signing up with the correct spelling — Valued contributer
Why is it putting them down as opposed to bringing them back down to your level? — Valued contributer
With race for example, the outrage over the use of slurs being uneven between certain races. The common explanation for this is that the use of those words don't always carry the same weight given history, political power etc. So things can sometimes seem superficially uneven but not be in reality. — Valued contributer
Otherwise however, isolating and condemning hypocrisy is typically considered an egalitarian activity. It is establishing what is generally accepted to be a core tenet of most moral systems: equality. — Valued contributer
What makes it difficult to describe femininity as ‘toxic’ is that what is considered ‘proper’ feminine behaviour is determined and reinforced not so much by female behaviour, but largely by male behaviour and response. — Possibility
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