Means that each point on the Retina is mapped to a point on V1. Also points near each other on the Retina are mapped to points near each other on V1. There are some details about the Retia mapping being split between the left side V1 and the right side V1 but there is this mapping nevertheless.This still did not invalidate the fact that V1 is Topologically mapped with the Retina. — SteveKlinko
What do you mean with "V1 is Topologically mapped with the Retina"? — Damir Ibrisimovic
I've heard of experiments like this. Interesting but it's about paying attention. Not that they can't see the two different people because of some Visual System defect. They just weren't paying attention.The expectation puts the towels there but reality catches up fast. The real world is remarkably and reliably presented.and reality overrides expectation quickly unless you are psychotic. — SteveKlinko
There was an experiment: Person A would ask for directions. Person B would start giving directions to persona A. Two other people would carry something between persons A & B so that A & B cannot see each other for a couple of seconds. The third person C would quickly replace person B... :)
The interesting thing is that person A would not notice the switch... — Damir Ibrisimovic
Means that each point on the Retina is mapped to a point on V1. — SteveKlinko
Recent studies at the University of California, Berkeley, however, show that the metaphor is more poetic than real. What the eye sends to the brain are mere outlines of the visual world, sketchy impressions that make our vivid visual experience all the more amazing.
I originally said it was a Topographical mapping but changed it to Topological mapping. When I Googled it, it looks like I was right the first time. They call it a Topographical mapping. Google Retina to V1 Topographical mapping. I'm surprised you didn't do this already.Means that each point on the Retina is mapped to a point on V1. — SteveKlinko
Then how do you interpret this: http://unisci.com/stories/20011/0329011.htm ?
Recent studies at the University of California, Berkeley, however, show that the metaphor is more poetic than real. What the eye sends to the brain are mere outlines of the visual world, sketchy impressions that make our vivid visual experience all the more amazing.
It's time to be serious. Vague references to textbooks are not constructive. Show us a paper... — Damir Ibrisimovic
What we ‘see’ depends on the features extracted in the retina, and how this information is integrated and interpreted by the brain. In the retina, the visual information is split into two streams, one for colour and one for form and motion.
Good article. But the real question is: Given that all that Neural Activity is happening then how do we get that Visual experience in our Conscious Minds? What is that Visual experience? That is the Hard Problem of Consciousness.What we ‘see’ depends on the features extracted in the retina, and how this information is integrated and interpreted by the brain. In the retina, the visual information is split into two streams, one for colour and one for form and motion.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/retinal-ganglion-cell . — Damir Ibrisimovic
Given that all that Neural Activity is happening then how do we get that Visual experience in our Conscious Minds? — SteveKlinko
What is that Visual experience? — SteveKlinko
Good article. — SteveKlinko
This argument of consciousness is like what the argument of gravity used to be (before Newton). — BrianW
Yes this is what I have been arguing. Science does not have a theory for how Consciousness is produced from the Neural Activity. When Science finds a theory the Hard Problem will be solvedThis argument of consciousness is like what the argument of gravity used to be (before Newton). — BrianW
Before Newton geometry (circle) drove movements of celestial bodies. Copernicus tried to describe the heliocentric system with circles - but it didn't work. Kepler "cheated" with ellipses to make it fit into the heliocentric system. Only when Newton proposed the theory of gravitation things started to "click together"... :) — Damir Ibrisimovic
Science does not have a theory for how Consciousness is produced from the Neural Activity. — SteveKlinko
Science does not have a theory for how Consciousness is produced from the Neural Activity. — SteveKlinko
Consciousness does not emerge from neuronal activity... :)
As I said: neuronal activity produces abstracts vital for quick responses to the environmental challenges. — Damir Ibrisimovic
I seems that for Sensory input that there has to be Neural Activity before the Conscious experience happens. — SteveKlinko
I seems that for Sensory input that there has to be Neural Activity before the Conscious experience happens. — SteveKlinko
Nobody knows why. The appropriate question is, given that Neural Activity seems to precede Conscious Activity, How does the Neural Activity lead to the Conscious Activity? What is the mechanism or process?I seems that for Sensory input that there has to be Neural Activity before the Conscious experience happens. — SteveKlinko
Why? — Damir Ibrisimovic
Nobody knows why. — SteveKlinko
Nobody knows why. — SteveKlinko
Retinal outputs are hints and edges - sketchy images... :) our impression of the visual images are vastly more than that. The further neuronal activities are even more sketchy than that. There is no room for the richness of visual impressions... :)
The only way to account for the totality of visual experiences is to take raw stimuli before any neural activity... :) — Damir Ibrisimovic
It seems that to have a Visual experience further processing must happen. — SteveKlinko
from The Doors of PerceptionIf the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.
Charlie Dunbar Broad :)...to enable us to live, the brain and nervous system eliminate unessential information from the totality of the Mind at Large.
It seems that to have a Visual experience further processing must happen. — SteveKlinko
That's not what the science says... :) According to numerous findings - there is no anything like a reconstruction of visual impressions anywhere in the brain... :)
If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.
from The Doors of Perception
...to enable us to live, the brain and nervous system eliminate unessential information from the totality of the Mind at Large.
Charlie Dunbar Broad :)
The whole cascade of neural activities has only one purpose - to emphasise the most relevant stimuli as quickly as possible...
The only point at which we have the unfiltered totality of visual impressions is when retinas are exposed to the visual stimuli minus retinal cells activity... — Damir Ibrisimovic
That's not what the science says... :) According to numerous findings - there is no anything like a reconstruction of visual impressions anywhere in the brain... :) — Damir Ibrisimovic
One thing Science is pretty sure about is that there is lots of Neural Processing that happens before a Conscious experience happens. — SteveKlinko
The question is, how does all that Neural Processing create the Visual Image that we see in our Conscious Minds? — SteveKlinko
If this is an hallucination, I'd be interested to know why and how.... — Pattern-chaser
Your sequence is probably correct.One thing Science is pretty sure about is that there is lots of Neural Processing that happens before a Conscious experience happens. — SteveKlinko
That's what I call "perception", but maybe I use the term incorrectly. :chin: First there is sensation - input from the senses - then there is perception - (extensive) 'processing' of the sensory input - and the end results are passed to the conscious mind, apparently fully-formed. Perception, like sensation, is pre-conscious and unconscious. We have no awareness of it, but we deduce (maybe wrongly? :chin:) that it happens. — Pattern-chaser
Your sequence is probably correct. — SteveKlinko
The question is, how does all that Neural Processing create the Visual Image that we see in our Conscious Minds? — SteveKlinko
Since there is no totality of visual experiences in the rest of the brain - we can assume that the retinas offer the basis for the totality of visual experiences... :)
Whatever passes through optical nerves is turned into hints of edges and coulour can not be the basis for the totality of visual experiences... — Damir Ibrisimovic
That's not what the science says... :) According to numerous findings - there is no anything like a reconstruction of visual impressions anywhere in the brain... :) — Damir Ibrisimovic
- link to article.V1 cells are organized retinotopically, which means that a point-to-point map exists between the retina and primary visual cortex, and neighboring areas in the retina correspond to neighboring areas in V1. — BrainHQ.com
But while Dreaming at night you can have very Vivid and Complete Images created by the Mind and there is no input from the Retina. — SteveKlinko
There is no activity in the Rods and Cones when Dreaming. Eye movements don't create Visual Scenes. Something at a further stage of the processing seems to be creating the actual Visual Images that we see when we are Dreaming or when we are Awake.But while Dreaming at night you can have very Vivid and Complete Images created by the Mind and there is no input from the Retina. — SteveKlinko
I'm not convicted that REM does not contribute to the vividness of our dreams... :) — Damir Ibrisimovic
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